I think SE needs to focus on making players feel important again.

[Remember_The_Name]

Start making the content intended for all players too difficult and SE starts losing paying customers.

And we have our WINNER, guys! Yes, in that one sentence was described SE attitude about "normal" content. Indeed, if you set the bar so low that it is practically non-existent, you will get more people and more subscriptions.

In the end, it is all about money.

This is what makes me so sad - I am excited to fight Ozma, Diabolos Hollow and TGC, but there never will be fights like this anymore. Alliance raids will be about one blob of 24 players standing directly in the boss shifting from time to time to dodge yet another AoE. This is the best experience AR will have to offer.

I am all for adding AR extreme or something like that. BUT, there was a certain charm when a ragtag team of randoms who queued into Duty Finder managed to cooperate, team-up and overcome a difficult boss. That was a very satisfying feeling.

About completion rates. It was so funny to read SE patting themselves on the back with EW relic weapons. "We are recording high completion rates with new relic system, very good". Well, maybe because those weapons are literally given to you for free 2 steps away from the major hub aetheryte, duh.

There always will be people complaining as a part of the game life cycle. But how long we will keep pandering to hyper casuals? Enwalker is already a slope with normal content and job design.

I can absolutely understand why players are complaining.XIV USED to have interesting and challenging duties even on normal difficulty. But nowadays, they are no longer here (Ilvl bloat, potency creep, straight up nerfed).

If you are always winning, the victory stops feeling good

[Heroman3003]

snip

Because with every expansion they did, they watched how successful that expansion was (not in terms of feedback, but actual player activity and subscription counts), and made conclusions. Which expansion happened to also be the biggest giant burst of popularity that soared game to new heights? Shadowbringers. Expansion that sealed the path to simplification, streamlining and complete segregation of 'normal' and 'difficult' content, with anything 'story-related' becoming casual-level easy, and only high-end stuff remaining difficult. Endwalker was not some sort of escalation, other than Alliance Raids being less damage spongy, it was just doing same thing, and so far, we have little reason to see that the statistics that matter have dropped as result of Endwalker doing all the same things Shadowbringers did. So, I forsee that on technical level, Dawntrail will be yet another iteration of the same, possibly with some experimental side optional content at most, which if successful will be continued in future expansions, and if not will be left deprecated, but never integrated into existing 'expected' content. The game found its success with Shadowbringers and until it starts failing, it will stick to the formula it established. And despite what people on this forum yell, the game is very much not failing yet.

[Supersnow845]

So why do alliance raids and normal raids have to be changed as well, they aren’t part of the MSQ, aren’t they the perfect bridging content between the dungeons and the low end of high end content (like extremes)

Rather than making a whole new type of content (that square has already shown they struggle with in the form of VC) wouldn’t it be better to use the content that was already designed to do what this new content is being proposed to do

[EgilTheStressedMage]

If they quit after 1 wipe, those are like hyper-casuals. I think there are more normal-casuals community who still enjoy somewhat of a challenge.

No those “hyper-casuals” are madbads who are better off watching let’s plays.

[Volgia]

Well on the other hand there's been tons of feedback and Yoshida is aware that the difficulty level in Endwalker was so easy it's starting to put people off, at least he knows (based on the Brazillian interview), so one can hope that for Dawntrail things are a bit more spicy than they are now.

I never knew Nier raids were unpopular cuz they were "hard" until I read it in these forums. I always thought they were unpopular because the story didn't make any sense. The fights were engaging, the music slapped, which is more than I can say for the snoozefest that is Myths of the Realm.

[Jeeqbit]

in that one sentence was described SE attitude about "normal" content. Indeed, if you set the bar so low that it is practically non-existent, you will get more people and more subscriptions.

Right. They admitted this to us once, many expansions ago. They said, bluntly, in response to the people wanting hard content: "easy is good... for us". I knew it was true, anyone that has so much watched the dynamics of an MMO know it's true, but they also admitted it.

About completion rates. It was so funny to read SE patting themselves on the back with EW relic weapons. "We are recording high completion rates with new relic system, very good". Well, maybe because those weapons are literally given to you for free 2 steps away from the major hub aetheryte, duh.

I agree. Frankly, that is a gross misinterpretation of the statistics. Of course people will get a free handout. It's like saying that because you gave away "free samples", that the product is popular. It's not popular because it tastes good, it's because it's free! But hopefully by adding a new Field Operation, they will backtrack and put relics behind it. There is no guarantee they actually will though. We will have to wait and see.

I can absolutely understand why players are complaining.XIV USED to have interesting and challenging duties even on normal difficulty. But nowadays, they are no longer here (Ilvl bloat, potency creep, straight up nerfed).

I wouldn't say the normal content was ever that challenging, it was just more engaging than it is now because:

1. Not as well-telegraphed.
2. Willing to make players do different tasks from eachother. Now we often do the same mechanics regardless of role.
3. Willing to make players responsible for mechanics that can kill other players ie. placing permanent aoes, tethered adds that tanks need to separate.
4. Jobs were more complicated or distracting to play.

It always had ilvl creep, even in Heavensward with Antitower and Thordan, but that has only got worse with battle system changes and potency creep.

If you are always winning, the victory stops feeling good

Agreed.

Because with every expansion they did, they watched how successful that expansion was (not in terms of feedback, but actual player activity and subscription counts), and made conclusions. Which expansion happened to also be the biggest giant burst of popularity that soared game to new heights? Shadowbringers. Expansion that sealed the path to simplification, streamlining

Agreed, and while you could attribute that growth to many things (such as the amazing trailer, music and story), I'm sorry to say that simplification could be one of the reasons that people stuck around long-term as well. If you started as a tank, especially the one on the title screen (Dark Knight), it was no longer the case that someone had to explain enmity combos and all that stuff, so you were able to play it fully like a DPS with a big sword, which is a big appeal for people.

Endwalker was not some sort of escalation, other than Alliance Raids being less damage spongy, it was just doing same thing, and so far, we have little reason to see that the statistics that matter have dropped as result of Endwalker doing all the same things Shadowbringers did.

Agreed, Endwalker wasn't really different to Shadowbringers in any significant way, except for a few minor things.

1. They made jobs harder to mess up ie. removal of remaining "keep up" buffs such as Blood of the Dragon and Enochian, Dancer's Flourish not overwriting the normal versions of those procs, Requiescat and Inner Release being clearly defined on what they use and the priority, Confiteor and Primal Rend being separate combos so it's harder to mess up, aligned buff windows, less positionals and bigger hitboxes to help melee jobs.
2. Lack of content with social interaction compared to prior expansions, such as soloing Island Sanctuary and Variants (whereas the Firmament, Ocean Fishing and Bozja were social), soloing dungeons with Duty Support, and not featuring a primary long-term content in relic grinding.

But this is all minor in that the first is just finishing what Shadowbringers started, and the second is something that will be fixed in Dawntrail with social exploratory content and a Field Operation.

The game found its success with Shadowbringers

I disagree with this part. It was successful long before Shadowbringers. Heavensward saw the game grow, Stormblood saw the game grow, Shadowbringers saw the game grow. It is just that Shadowbringers saw it finally reach a million active characters. If 1 million is your arbitrary definition of success, then sure, but it depends on what number defines success in your opinion.

[Nokuushi]

I hate to be ''This guy'' But.

Nothing will change. The Dungeons on lv 91-100 will be the same as 81-90. I doubt they will be easier, but you can bet your arm they won't be harder.
People here are kinda forgetting that majority of FF14 community, is silent casual players. That's the core part of the game. Sad reality is, even if every single active user of this forum stopped playing, It wouldn't matter much. That's how small the minority here on forum is.

Personally I stopped carring about it. It won't change, FF14 isn't game suited for players like me anymore. It's for the ''new guys and gals'' I mainly play for expansion and then patch content, and that's it. Unsub until next content drop.
It's sad, being a veteran and seeing your loved MMO change so much, and not in direction you want. But hey, it is what it is. Maybe Dawntrail will be different, but so far, it isn't looking like it.

[Kreyd]

The difficulty curve in normal modes feels almost completely static from basically level 50 to 90 and that really shouldn't be the case especially when healers/tanks keep getting expanded kits that oft end up feeling like unneeded fluff outside of extreme and higher content.

You don't even need to burn all of your CDs to do wall to wall pulls while maintaining 100% uptime on DPS nowdays.

It actually feels like difficulty gets down once you've hit 50/60 dungeons. I wipe more often in old content than I ever would in 90 dungeons. 90 dungeons are just wall to wall pulls, where I throw my endgame rotation like a maniac at trash that has the size of an ARR boss, but still dies in 20 seconds max.

Does anyone remember how hard simple trash mobs in 50-60 dungeons could hit? Do you remember stuff like the wasps in Temple of Qarn or the poison in Aurum Vale? Hells, do you remember Diablos in Amdapor?! What happened to stuff like that???

[AnnRam]

I was thinking just now why Endwalker feels so awful to play and it dawned on me that it’s because the game design is so bland I don’t feel like I or anyone matters anymore. It’s completely nihilistic and stale gameplay.

I am talking about normal content. As most of the game is normal content. For example our tank disconnected in Aerherfont, an expert dungeon and I tanked it as BLM while a very poorly geared SCH kept me alive. How poorly geared? Well he hasn’t played since he finished EW and only bought enough pieces in the market board to get his ilvl high enough. Did not meld them either.

So… people don’t needs tanks, they don’t need healers, and they sure don’t need DPS, then all we have is depression as a player. You don’t make a difference. Not really. And this is sad.

I know most of these elements were implemented because people felt too much pressure as a healer or tank, or didn’t want to fail or whatever. They tried to make it so people feel safe. But safety isn’t fun. By doing this the developers also took away the chance for players to shine and pull through. For people to notice and recognize who’s good at their job. None of this exists now. Everyone is indifferent to everyone.

In a quest to avoid conflict in their game at all costs they did not create happiness or success. They created silence and indifference. Before, in dungeons like the burn sure if a player wasn’t able to clear after several wipes people would get mad, or at orbonne monastery, but they also knew joy when things were completed. This is because people recognized that things took effort and well… they made a difference. People were important.

For years the vast majority of the community wanted a safe place and avoid any kind of frustration/tension and anxiety.

That's whe reason why the game is so easy and unremarkable.

Veteran players for SE are people who can unsub at any day unlike New players who needs everything ready to jump in action without any kind of effort.

[Musashidon]

There always will be people complaining as a part of the game life cycle. But how long we will keep pandering to hyper casuals? Enwalker is already a slope with normal content and job design.

forever? this is a beginner mmo for hyper casuals. it always has been and always will be. so expect SE to always pander to them.