Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Gyson]

I can't help but think of Marvel, and how grand it's been going for them after retiring the popular original team they built their universe around while hoping their fans would be interested in an all new cast. Or when Paramount retired the Star Trek: The Next Generation crew and provided us with the cast of Voyager to compensate.

Where's my sarcasm emoji..

[strawberrycake]

At one point earlier I remember Yoshida saying the adventure after EW was gonna be only Thancred and Krile(this could have been a translation error as they're sadly very common). Them adding the rest on later just feels like a slap to the face.

[Turtledeluxe]

This is another one of those things where players say they want something but they don't imo. Zero is the perfect evidence. "Zero is just an x,y, z archetype blah blah blah". Given the time span of any Scion you could say the same thing about them. XIV's vocal fans tend to have knee jerk reactions to everything which makes new things and/or creative things really hard to implement unless they are otherwise familiar/extremely safe (like a Fall Guys collab). Eureka and Bozja became trendy later in their life cycles because as Yoshi P himself noticed, the initial reactions were "ugh". XIV's vocal fans are like cranky old cats that need extremely delicate consideration when introducing new things.

[strawberrycake]

This is another one of those things where players say they want something but they don't imo. Zero is the perfect evidence. "Zero is just an x,y, z archetype blah blah blah". Given the time span of any Scion you could say the same thing about them. XIV's vocal fans tend to have knee jerk reactions to everything which makes new things and/or creative things really hard to implement unless they are otherwise familiar/extremely safe (like a Fall Guys collab). Eureka and Bozja became trendy later in their life cycles because as Yoshi P himself noticed, the initial reactions were "ugh". XIV's vocal fans are like cranky old cats that need extremely delicate consideration when introducing new things.

I wholely disagree, Yotsuyu had less screen time then zero across her entire expansion and was better written. Zero was just poor writing all together.

[Raikai]

I think I'm comparing the Scions to a sitcom or anime cast.

Season after season you have the same cast for great shows. Feel that's the logic behind the Scions in XIV, but with casual additions (Krile, Estinien) or subtractions (Lyse).

All and all, I think that based on DT's key art, the Scions NOT there (Twins, Y'shtola, G'raha, Estinien) are going to be present only for the first half of DT's storyline, which I think it will be fully dedicated to the lighter theme of the competition of succession. I believe that section will have a finale with the first trial Valingarmanda - as an actual trial for the championing teams.

The allies we have in the key art are the ones that will keep with the WoL also moving forward to the second part, which I highly presume it's placed in the north area of Tural, where Solution 9 is. If I could guess further, Y'shtola - with all the rift transversing knowledge she does have - will be set aside to act as the main support character for the 24-main raid.

[Turtledeluxe]

I wholely disagree, Yotsuyu had less screen time then zero across her entire expansion and was better written. Zero was just poor writing all together.

She's also not a Scion or something comparable. She severely lacks proximity to the main plot vs Zero. The thread is about who would make a new addition to our party and for that, I'm sorry, the most vocal fans are always going to hate no matter what with a 0.000001% of not hating it.

And it make sense because the average person does not realize they are comparing Zero to characters with 10+ years of development. In the same way a brand new Scion will take two or three expansions to escape the initial crying period.

Also note I'm talking about vocal fans ie fans that use social media. I'm not talking about the majority of the fanbase who are relatively moderate and have balanced expectations. -1 to -1.5 expansions if they're attractive, male, and another -0.5 if they're sarcastic/edgy. Nonetheless the team are likely asking themselves it's worth expending the resources to risk the hive undermining their efforts trying to prove a new hero is worthy to join the MSQ. Which, to be honest, is asking a lot imo, even for the most talented writers.

[strawberrycake]

She's also not a Scion or something comparable. She severely lacks proximity to the main plot vs Zero. The thread is about who would make a new addition to our party and for that, I'm sorry, the most vocal fans are always going to hate no matter what with a 0.000001% of not hating it.

That doesn't change that Zero was poorly written? Moonbryda was around for like 1 patch and is more memorable then Zero?

[OdinelStarrei]

She's also not a Scion or something comparable. She severely lacks proximity to the main plot vs Zero. The thread is about who would make a new addition to our party and for that, I'm sorry, the most vocal fans are always going to hate no matter what with a 0.000001% of not hating it.

And it make sense because the average person does not realize they are comparing Zero to characters with 10+ years of development. In the same way a brand new Scion will take two or three expansions to escape the initial crying period.

What do you mean by this? Ryne, a character who pretty much doesn't exist past 5.3 in the main plot, I'm actually pretty okay with, and her trying to disentangle herself from Minfilia, one of those 10+ year veteran characters, is a core part of her arc. Even the Role Quest NPCs in Shadowbringers have their own motivations and interests that align with yours temporarily, but most of them are given a scene or two for them to be fleshed out, without them being part of a mediorce, theme-antagonistic trial plotline turned MSQ. For me, I actually started thinking of them as more of a Scion B-Team then the actual B-Team we have in the background. Yes, I am saying that Granson is a better fleshed out tortured soul who learns to trust character than Zero is, with like 10% of the screentime. Even antagonists like Lyon and Pagaga have more presence for me than Zero, and they're in a totally optional, abandoned storyline. That's why whenever a character like say, Yugiri, another veteran who has taken a backseat, shows up, I say "Oh, nice to see you again, glad you're holding up well." vs "LEAVE ME ALONE STOP FOLLOWING ME"

New characters can be fine, but not if they're only a plot device for the void, which is all Zero is, compared to someone like Unukalhai or Cylva who have separate plotlines that are void adjacent that have been kinda retrofitted to match Zero's inclusion. I love new characters who are interesting and can offer different perspectives to the in-game world building experience. It's when I get stuff like Fran and Golbez and they tell me "REMEMBER THESE GUYS?" where I can get a bit ehhhh, and when I get the 10th Graha food, Thancred nutkin, Shtola mommy joke, I just lose interest.

Krile was cool in Eureka, maybe if she's a focus, I can grow on her more, she's been underutilized for so long. I just think the current main cast has had more than enough time filling the space. Think a core part of Azem was that, makes friends anywhere, anytime, no issue, just to solve problems. I think that's the way to go to keep things fresh.

[Turtledeluxe]

What do you mean by this? Ryne, a character who pretty much doesn't exist past 5.3 in the main plot, I'm actually pretty okay with, and her trying to disentangle herself from Minfilia, one of those 10+ year veteran characters, is a core part of her arc. Even the Role Quest NPCs in Shadowbringers have their own motivations and interests that align with yours temporarily, but most of them are given a scene or two for them to be fleshed out, without them being part of a mediorce, theme-antagonistic trial plotline turned MSQ. For me, I actually started thinking of them as more of a Scion B-Team then the actual B-Team we have in the background. Yes, I am saying that Granson is a better fleshed out tortured soul who learns to trust character than Zero is, with like 10% of the screentime. Even antagonists like Lyon and Pagaga have more presence for me than Zero, and they're in a totally optional, abandoned storyline. That's why whenever a character like say, Yugiri, another veteran who has taken a backseat, shows up, I say "Oh, nice to see you again, glad you're holding up well." vs "LEAVE ME ALONE STOP FOLLOWING ME"

New characters can be fine, but not if they're only a plot device, which is all Zero is. I love new characters who are interesting and can offer different perspectives to the in-game world building experience. It's when I get stuff like Fran and Golbez and they tell me "REMEMBER THESE GUYS?" where I can get a bit ehhhh, and when I get the 10th Graha food, Thancred nutkin, Shtola mommy joke, I just lose interest.

Krile was cool in Eureka, maybe if she's a focus, I can grow on her more, she's been underutilized for so long. I just think the current main cast has had more than enough time filling the space. Think a core part of Azem was that, makes friends anywhere, anytime, no issue, just to solve problems. I think that's the way to go to keep things fresh.

Ryne literally rode a Scion's legacy into the main party. I said it would have to be very familiar/safe. Ryne is depending heavily on the context of Minfilia and Thancred to even begin to work as a character. Tbh without the Minfilia element, that plot line would get real weird real fast without some modifications.

[Turtledeluxe]

That doesn't change that Zero was poorly written? Moonbryda was around for like 1 patch and is more memorable then Zero?

She's memorable because she died and she was a love interest of a Scion. Now, if a new character is introduced and is *familiar* (which breaks the rules I stated earlier) because they have some historical context with a Scion, that's different. Zero has a slight tie to Zenos and that's superficial, because her actual history has nothing to do with him. Zero has her own storyline that is mostly independent of MSQ outside the world being doomed by Ascians. If Zero did have a strong tie to Zenos and her writing was thematically tied to him, I'd actually argue she would have been very well liked, despite Zenos being a villain and a divisive character.