Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Ath192]

I definitely disagree and it's hard for me to understand people who want the Scions, who are basically the main characters of the story and the game at this point, to go away. Especially people who want ALL of them to go away.

In the places I hang out the scions are immensely popular. They are introducing new characters in Dawntrail though, and it sounds like they are trying to let us see the scions from different angles with the whole "rivalry" plot.

I would like to know why if I'm being honest. I've been seeing the scions story play out for 10 years and.... Well basically I can sum up their entire reasoning and philosophy in single sentence.

"For the good of everyone and the star!"

This... pretty much sums them up after 10 years. None of them have complexity and this is not how real people behave. People have way more depth to them than uncompromising and unyielding altruism behind them. It's extremely unrelatable because it feels like we're in a room with a bunch of billionaire philanthropists that have no worries whatsoever, than just doing good for the people.

How can one even empathize or relate to this is beyond me. There is no ambition in any of them, except to sacrifice their entire lives for the good of the world, and I mean while this messaging is good and all it feels like a bunch of cardboard people and marketing slogans really...

Given reaction to Zero its good this is not the direction they are going

Zero was an awful character. It was a blank slate character and they didn't even know what they wanted or how to interact appropriately which is why the scions had no problem brain washing them into being another supporter of the world economic forum. Emet Selch was a good character, there was a lot of complexity within that one. I'm asking for people who show a wide variety of emotions, motivations and actions. Some good, some bad, some selfish.

[Wasselin]

I would like to know why if I'm being honest. I've been seeing the scions story play out for 10 years and.... Well basically I can sum up their entire reasoning and philosophy in single sentence.

"For the good of everyone and the star!"

This... pretty much sums them up after 10 years. None of them have complexity and this is not how real people behave. People have way more depth to them than uncompromising and unyielding altruism behind them. It's extremely unrelatable because it feels like we're in a room with a bunch of billionaire philanthropists that have no worries whatsoever, than just doing good for the people.

How can one even empathize or relate to this is beyond me. There is no ambition in any of them, except to sacrifice their entire lives for the good of the world, and I mean while this messaging is good and all it feels like a bunch of cardboard people and marketing slogans really...



Zero was an awful character. It was a blank slate character and they didn't even know what they wanted or how to interact appropriately which is why the scions had no problem brain washing them into being another supporter of the world economic forum. Emet Selch was a good character, there was a lot of complexity within that one. I'm asking for people who show a wide variety of emotions, motivations and actions. Some good, some bad, some selfish.

I don't really want to argue or debate you but this seems completely out of step with reality and a denial of what's actually in the story just because you don't like the Scions. They absolutely have individual traits and complexity, character growth. They even disagree at times, which they are teasing we might see more of in Dawntrail. So despite not getting rid of the Scions, I feel like they are heading in a direction where you might get some of what you wish -- to see the Scions in a different mode besides saving the world.

Just because they are heroes, with good intentions, doesn't mean they aren't fleshed out characters. I mean sacrificing your life to save the world sounds pretty ambitious. Do you need Thancred to kick a puppy and Y'shtola to take up chain smoking in order to declare them "complex"?

[Ath192]

I don't really want to argue or debate you but this seems completely out of step with reality and a denial of what's actually in the story just because you don't like the Scions. They absolutely have individual traits and complexity, character growth. They even disagree at times, which they are teasing we might see more of in Dawntrail. So despite not getting rid of the Scions, I feel like they are heading in a direction where you might get some of what you wish -- to see the Scions in a different mode besides saving the world.

Just because they are heroes, with good intentions, doesn't mean they aren't fleshed out characters. I mean sacrificing your life to save the world sounds pretty ambitious. Do you need Thancred to kick a puppy and Y'shtola to take up chain smoking in order to declare them "complex"?

We're not, we're discussing. For example the responses in this thread haven't been one sided, meaning that there is plenty of support on both sides to both keep and get rid of them. That's revealing in and of itself. I guess some people do like them after all.

As far them being heroes with good intentions that is well and fine, we just don't see them desire anything but the good of Eorzea. And that's not how typical people behave. How many people do you know that their only thoughts and motivations in life are saving the world? all the time? I'm not sure I find the premise of 2 twin teenagers and their friends going around fixing all of the worlds problems that compelling of a story. I would rather meet more relatable characters who have different ambitions and desires, love arcs, and fleshed out backgrounds. I don't even think the scions are allowed to have relationships with anyone so that the player feels like they could ship their characters with any one of them, but that really stunts their development. I feel like Yshtola finding a way to be together with Runar and getting married would've been an excellent way of retiring her character for example. It's not dark, it's actual much more human and relatable than constantly finding crisis to avert.

So no, I don't hate the scions, I just find them rather uninteresting. I do feel the game would be feel more fresh if it wasn't "The next adventure with the scions 7.0" when the entire 10 year story concluded.

This doesn't mean I want to see them become drug addicts or kick puppies lol.

[Wasselin]

We're not, we're discussing. For example the responses in this thread haven't been one sided, meaning that there is plenty of support on both sides to both keep and get rid of them. That's revealing in and of itself. I guess some people do like them after all.

As far them being heroes with good intentions that is well and fine, we just don't see them desire anything but the good of Eorzea. .

I don't think it's true that they don't have desires or ambitions of their own. Do those personal desires take a back seat to what has been the primary objective? Yes, they do. Take a character often maligned for having no story like Y'shtola -- past Endwalker she has a completely personal reason for getting involved in the main story, one that was developed during Shadowbringers. We may be headed in the direction that you suggest, even if we havn't got there yet. Although that doesn't have to "retire" her character. Also, many of the Scions have had love interests, not just Y'shtola.

Is it the main focus of the story? No it isn't and maybe it should be, but then I'm sure people would complain that the Scions are hogging too much of the spotlight and would make it more difficult to tell the main story. It would be interesting for them to use side quests to examine the scions story more, as optional content, but I think they shy away from doing that due to continuity issues.

There are a lot of example and I think if you examine the story further you will see all of the Scions have motivations beyond just "saving the world" or being hangers on to the Warrior of Light. They also have different methods of achieving their goals, which has brought them into conflict. I'm sorry to cast aspersions, but to me it seems that you are just ignoring a lot of the story in order to have this argument that we need to get rid of the current scions and replace them. To me I think it makes more sense to introduce new characters slowly and expand the cast of characters, not arbitrarily reduce them by getting rid of well-established characters. That reduces the complexity of the characters involved in the story, not increases it.

[Yegu]

I would like to know why if I'm being honest. I've been seeing the scions story play out for 10 years and.... Well basically I can sum up their entire reasoning and philosophy in single sentence.

"For the good of everyone and the star!"

This... pretty much sums them up after 10 years. None of them have complexity and this is not how real people behave. People have way more depth to them than uncompromising and unyielding altruism behind them. It's extremely unrelatable because it feels like we're in a room with a bunch of billionaire philanthropists that have no worries whatsoever, than just doing good for the people.

How can one even empathize or relate to this is beyond me. There is no ambition in any of them, except to sacrifice their entire lives for the good of the world, and I mean while this messaging is good and all it feels like a bunch of cardboard people and marketing slogans really...

I think this is the biggest thing. Pretty much all of them except for Y'shtola currently have no goals or motivations. They're just hanger-ons. They're all lawful good and will generally react the same in story events, which I don't think is exciting. Even Estinien who previously had been the anti-hero type has more or less fallen in line with how the rest of the Scions act.