Missing Gameplay Infused Roleplay (& Comparing FFXIV Gameplay Roleplay to Other MMOs)

[Atelier-Bagur]

idk, a lot of this feels like "oh, OH! I like 'x' from 'y'! We should totally put it into 'z'!" even when it just doesn't work like that. "Hey, let's make FFXIV's mount system just like GW2s! because it's the BEST! (it isn't)" is easy to say, but their entire world is built around that system. Their whole combat system is connected to their mounts.

I mean sure, it's good to look at how FFXIV could improve, and there are so many ways it needs to improve, but it has to fit into how the game has already developed to some degree, unless we're talking a new reboot like 2.0 was. They're not going to suddenly just say "yea, let's just do the complete opposite of what we've been doing", as much as you want it.

Im sorry but this feels more like petty pride that other games do X better so FFXIV should stick to what it does regardless.

Did you know that WoW is finally adding a Trust system to dungeons now?

[Mecia]

This would be cool if XIV had half as many systems and mechanics as WoW to make this kind of stuff relevant or impactful.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This would be cool if XIV had half as many systems and mechanics as WoW to make this kind of stuff relevant or impactful.

True, game needs a bit of a gameplay revamp. Combat, skills, netcode, everything.

[Payadopa]

I'd like to see mini games themed around jobs. Like jumping puzzles for DRG like what playing music is to BRD or collecting spells for BLU. Basically, give jobs their own (limited) version to inject some much needed variety. Personally, I also love NIN's faster run speed or fall damage reduction. We need way, way more of that stuff.

[Shougun]

I recently started playing wow, both retail and HC classic, and I agree, especially "I wish these features could be in XIV because I would enjoy it more here". I think this is one of the problems that adds to XIV feeling more and more dull. As someone who started in Stormblood, I saw the gradual culling of these gimmicky utility skills of ARR/HW, to the streamlined SHB/EW where there's only damage and damage reduction skills. These utility skills made up a big part of the class fantasy and distinctiveness. Since I started as a healer, skills such as fluid aura, time dilation, and even the act of casting protect gave me a warm feeling as a healer lol. The act of casting buffs like protect and power word fortitude still add to the class fantasy imo.

In wow I thought it was cool how there's many different kinds of interactions you can have with raid bosses that aren't just dmg/dmg reduc. Like a raid boss named Painsmith sending rolling boulders of death down the arena, but people came up with the strat to glide off the arena and glide back to dodge them. Actual non dmg interactions like more interrupts, CCs mattering. Mechanics that give the players more control like tank boss positioning rather than scripted movements, WoW-style player placed perma puddles, and HP triggers rather than scripted time triggers (that aren't just tied to phase enrages).

Yes, sometimes I feel like I'm just playing the same job with different skill skins when I switch to other jobs in the same role.

Itemization has been reduced down so much that it's just the illusion of choice. Crit>DH>Det with minor 1% dps variations and mp economy. Complete reset each raid tier that even your ultimate and relic weapons don't matter on the same tier they're on let alone the next one. Each new raid tier just feels like I'm stepping on a roller coaster ride where everything's decided for me rather than playing an rpg with the fun of picking items/stats/attributes. I hope Yoship takes a cue from WoW with the plentiful choices of pre-raid gear from various sources, gear from the previous tier being bis in many cases, and set bonuses.

Jobs should have skills that create their class fantasy, whether it's a gimmicky utility skill or combat skill. It's ok for jobs to be different from each other. It's ok that some jobs do better in certain situations than others. Especially in 14 where you can switch to any job at any time and not have to level an alt, imo it should give them even more reason to build raids around different job variations.

Yeah I having played since.. uh.. the beginning.. *old man voice* I have seen a lot of things taken away for the sake of smoothness, and I don't even always disagree, but it seems to never be replaced or recovered.. just one long lasting slide down into a pit of similarity, meanwhile the originating spot wasn't even as roleplaying as other games.. So you went from 'eh kind of', to 'no not really'. That's unfortunate.

Though PvP does seem to be a bastion for some neat ideas. It's probably partially my fault but a long while ago I had asked for MCH to be more PEW PEW PEW and Bard to have more 'Ranger' like elements by having a 'drawing' (casting) bar.. I did HOWEVER also suggest that if you cancel your movement the attack still launches which is what PvP has.. now.. Not sure what people think of that, comparatively, but things like that I feel is where PvP is full of ideas that are pretty unique. Stuff that make it so you feel both on the giving and receiving end of 'stuff that makes you feel special' and such that you know a job is 'that' job and not just 'the green job, the blue job, the red job'.

There are somethings (as mentioned), but a major point of the thread wasn't just "it doesn't exist at all" but that it doesn't really feel enough, in a personal level, but also "comparatively it feels our 'roleplay' of the roleplaying game is weaker". I don't have to compare, naturally, but I feel it's easier to say "it's possible" than just come up with entirely new thing that has never happened before and try to get people's buy in. Which is like what happened when I suggested mount characteristics many many years ago, people were generally against it as it didn't make sense to them.. but now we can see it in both GW2 and WoW and it is regularly seen as 'more fun' when you have the movement gamified rather than hold W till you arrive at your destination. Now that it exists I point at them, but honestly it wasn't because of them that I wanted it. Though its funny that someone on the first page still thought to accuse me of it. If you have an original idea, be damned, if you have something you appreciate from another game of an extremely similar architype.. damn you still lol.

I like the visuals of our fights and I do like telegraphed markers to be honest lol (kind of wish we had more animated / thematic UI markers.. though that is it's own challenge), but I do agree that the fights are consistently so scripted that you can mentally play out the fights in your head before they even happen once you know your group. It's not a personal point of contention though, so I'd rather allow others to speak on that more (I could make more opinions but unless it was my job I think people who find that content a high priority should pay more opinion to it- unless I hear something I know I'd dislike I'll be more quiet on that element).

Itemization is certainly really... Zzzzzz. In 1.0 we had some Hunts (NMs) that you could earn unique items from, there were some special effects on them.. they were removed in the transition to 2.0 . I honestly, at this point, care so little about stats that you could just give me item level and nothing else and I might just prefer that rather than pretend stats xD. Though I would greatly prefer having some neat items instead.

I've said it in a few places but just worth repeating in case it appears otherwise, I don't envy balancing given that you are dancing on a knife edge.. on a good day you'll only have a few people upset with you. *weak sad cat thumbs up.jpg*

Agreed that given you can switch jobs easily here that it seems like a BETTER reason to have strong roleplay, not to have less. In my mind, it would make sense if FFXIV hit roleplay harder than WoW even- given the consequence is minimal vs in WoW where until Warbands are released is fairly substantial.

I’d be ok with more unique abilities personally. Though it’s definitely a tightrope with balance . One of the reasons for example the races don’t have anything special to each was for balance and the team does tend to let balance be the number one thing over experimentation.

So I wouldn’t necessarily mind if they added more unique skills in a general sense ,however I am against them adding abilities to the itemization. One of the major things that really bothered me when playing wow was how a piece of armor would change an entire ability or even give an entire ability. Which meant I would only get to enjoy that while I used it.

I’m sure some people like this but this was one of the factors that made me not really enjoy gearing up in wow. Gaining crit isn’t exactly interesting, but losing abilities every tier or expansion is just saddening.

While I’m sure something could be done to make itemization more interesting I definitely don’t want to see my armor changing my skills or adding any. Keep that done via leveling , I’d even be ok with a skill tree or something.

Tightrope with a thousand sharks, certainly lol. But it was that way always, like even now. They have excellent balance, mathematically, right now- and look-- it's still a riot! lol. A person gave some cool race racial examples here and I like the creativity, but if I was proverbially 'king at the wheel' (like "if I was president of US" type pipe dream nonsense) I probably would avoid racials just because I don't want people to feel like they need to restart their entire game because they chose wrong (however I have no qualm making a job feel special because if you want that... just play that job! ).

I appreciate you voicing your concerns about itemization. I'm not sure I'd entirely agree, and probably would still want to see items with neat effects.. but I respect your voice on the matter (and feel it's worth voicing so people can see all the perspectives). Particularly I appreciate when people are articulating their reasons .

Gosh, I never even thought about this but yeah I love how World of Warcraft has those extra class specific abilities that do things out of combat.

The only job ability we have in FFXIV that has that function is the Bard's performance ability and all of the physical ranger jobs having Peloton that increase party movement.

This game has a serious problem with making jobs feel satisfying to play so I would love if they implemented some extra stuff like for example, an Astrologian having the ability to fortune tell any player granting them a variety of minor buffs or debuffs effects (once per day) or Dragoons being able to double jump or high jump.

Stuff like this would help solve some (and I emphasize on SOME) of the homogenized feel of the jobs if every job had at least some unique function to them that doesnt necessarily have to always be combat related.

Man.. it haunts me. Constantly.. XD. I am actually impressed with the reception because I've been banging my drum of "make roleplay better" for a while, and some people agree, but it's never been fairly consistently so many people wanting roleplay in general improved. Perhaps its a perfect apex right now, given that jobs have become less and less roleplay-feeling than more. Although I don't think I've taken this approach before to explaining why I feel the way I do..

I think bard is a great example, and one that I'd like to actually see expand a bit (I'll detail some ideas). BUT FIRST a tangent lol- When we were just getting limited jobs I had started the idea of advanced jobs, where think of Hunter in WoW where you just.. get pets cause it's fun and those pets can have different gimmicks. So my thought was like rather than shun a job for being different lets expand that, and Bard was an example of that. Repeating a thought in an above quote but given it's so easy to multi-job in FFXIV.. this is /the game to it in/ if we are talking about extreme roleplay anyways. In one of those threads I had exampled Dancer could get choreography, where like Bard makes music the dancer could get different steps and make interesting dances.

Coming back around- not only does bard get music mechanic but that music could actually buff their allies. Like how sitting at a campfire in WoW could give you a buff, listening to your bard buddy might be like 5% exp and 5% movement speed buff for 30 minutes. You might intentionally stop by a Bard to get that buff. Or like they add certain unlockable rolls to your bard that you actually get to play those songs when you use certain combat musical abilities- so you can customize the music you play (combat customizations). Like how we had that guitar hero mini-game, there could be some locations where you get to play for NPCs in taverns and unlock new instruments, rolls, and even visual note styles (little note effects that appear while playing, some could be poppy and floaty while others might vanish into smoke). Not sure about allowing custom music while performing combat mechanics just cause it could lead to some absolutely terrifying parties but.. it can be a discussion lol.

A comparable example so this doesn't just sound 'out of left field' is in WoW you have say all the beasts for Hunter, different demons for Warlock, customization of spells like different polymorph unlocks for Mage or different transformation appearances for Druid.

Astrologian fortune telling is a great example. Might even be able to set up a little booth where your character gets marked with an icon so players can approach. May make a mini-game out of the decisions such that better decisions lead to a better reward for the Astrologian. This may in turn unlock new card backs and visuals, such that you could customize your cards a little (in combat visual customization). Each fortune telling might grant like 5% exp, and as you rank up your fortune telling you can tell more fortunes before tiring (up to a max). Add some NPCs in the world that unlock special cards and effects, that also count to your rank, that you can repeat visit (just incase you either hate players or you're unlucky and no one wants to help you). Naturally a buff for the person getting their fortune too!

For a long while I focused on non-combat and argued similarly to what you said-- it would help some, but I feel we are getting to a point that I am also arguing we should have some combat distinctions too cause it's getting more and more similar.

So more job related passives that anyone can gain such as Ninja run speed/Jump animation? Yeah I'm all for that dude thanks for clarifying.

Of course! Even if I ultimately say something you're not a huge fan of I appreciate you articulating your concerns and I hope to be able to repay anyone else similarly in why I think something should or shouldn't be a certain way.

They could take another page from FF6 with how they have magicite as well as relics that are either for all characters/jobs or just specific ones.

Like for example the dragoon boots relic in FF6 changed the characters attack command to jump, they could do a similar thing here but adapted for XIV's mechanics. Maybe the double jump thing, and have it be a thing only dragoon can use.

Or for something more tangible, take the magicite mechanic and turn it into equippable gems for summoner that change its summons into bismarck/leviathan/shiva/etc etc other summons

I think both of those to be honest would be a neat feature to include as the new exploratory zone's logos/lost actions mechanic (assuming it has one)

Interesting ideas

Some sort of pilgrimage for Summoner could be quite fun. May take notes from both FFX and FFXI. For example in FFXI you had to earn the primal's respect in a solo fight, could have cool pilgrimages that culminate in fun solo battles. I had some ideas in other threads to get SMN to the classic elemental primals as actual combat relevant.. but if any primal can NEVER be combat relevant I'm all for their 'skin' to become an opportunity for SMN to pilgrimage!

Totally agree with the post. While reading it I instantly started thinking what they could do with XIV and... yeah, not everything has to be amazing, just needs to contribute to the feel of being certain class/job, so I would be more than happy to get new things to play with in XIV

Some of the ideas I brainstormed:

Racial examples:

Keepers of the Moon/Sun: Movement speed buff when its night/day time respectively. The /dance emote changes to a more intricate dance along the buff

Plainsfolk: Increased GP regen while not mounted
Dunesfolk: Chance to save Crystals and clusters while crafting in one of the main cities

Seawolf/Hellsguard: While on the Sea/Desert respectively, massively increase health regeneration. Seawolf get a Sea-shanty singing action, and Hellsguard can lay down to stargaze on the sands

Class examples:

Scholar - Tape and Pencil: With the help of your fairy/carbie you can extend a measuring tape between you two, to measure distances (visible by party members). In instances, you can draw on the floor while out of combat (and it gets erased when combat is engaged). Ideally this would be used to explain things in scholarly fashion, but I would accept goofy drawings too

Warrior - Beast Roar: De-aggro and make overworld enemies run away from you

Paladin - Out of combat raise/first aid : ^)

I would keep going but I think I have seen posts before where people listed similar concepts. As for the Toy box, I would go as far as to pay for it ;_; I genuinely love so much the effects you describe, my favorite ones were the Chef hat and the shrinking potion. Pls give

While I was straying away from racials just to avoid people being like "aw damn that race has way better effect than me" I think your suggestions are interesting! (And it's not just 'my ideas' so I encourage everyone to suggest what they think would be cool, that makes me really happy to read people coming up with ideas).

I think your Scholar example could be a fun example of where a job might get a freebie version of show and tell but then there is some sort of alchemist 'toy' that players can also make, naturally Scholars would also have a fae theme.

Beast Roar, nice example of something unique- potentially handy, and self balanced by not working in instanced content (although FFXIV 'could' go that unique, but I would agree with everyone and myself, lol, that FFXIV is not really there yet and it doesn't have to go that deep to be interesting enough to add flavor to the job).

Paladin raise, excellent idea- I think here I would want to add an example where we can keep ease of use too (stating that things don't have to be obtuse). For example the skill is granted to you at level 30 (that's when you become Paladin...) as "Lay on hands" which will heal or raise an out of combat target. At level 58 it will change to Clemency, increasing the heal potency and allowing the heal component to work IN combat. If you target a dead player while in combat it will act as if you targeted yourself (so you don't accidentally do nothing). Essentially you've gained an entire roleplay element without even having to add a new ability, "it just works".

Did you know that WoW is finally adding a Trust system to dungeons now?

Which you can gear and level . . . Not sure if they will ever be as good as our squadrons, but I miss how 'worth' leveling the squadrons were (in FFXIV). They started as dumb as chocobo turds but they were so potent at max rank. It was awesome. One thing, and I'm sorry if it's changed and I just didn't know, but I REALLY disliked how trusts would be balanced around how well I was doing.. they would intentionally do more or less damage to aim for a estimate duration to complete the content (this was said by FFXIV early on for trusts).

Trusts are still helpful for a few reasons, but generally I don't think as fondly of them as I did my max tier squadron members. I've wishes and ideas for those systems too, but not really the point of this thread lol.

This would be cool if XIV had half as many systems and mechanics as WoW to make this kind of stuff relevant or impactful.

Definitely I appreciate the many levels of roleplay that WoW has, and am even more impressed by it that they are now going to add Warbands which will give them a very similar vibe to our own in terms of ease of use (some huge pro and some cons still).

True, game needs a bit of a gameplay revamp. Combat, skills, netcode, everything.

I included navigation and better dynamic open world content into the post because I felt it was close enough to roleplay, so those might lead to the general concept of revamp. I was trying to be specific though because I didn't want to have a nebulous vibe, as I always try to be particular in what I'd like to see AND why I'd like to see it. Not saying a dev will agree with me but I hope to not leave one confused either lol. I also, imo, feel that they have either listened to feedback I've listed, quite a few times (more than 10), ooorrr I have a Nostradamus-like knack at this point given that most of my posts are feedback oriented and have had some lucky line up to content that has been added.. but it has left me with the feeling that they do listen (even though they wont communicate it) and that it is worth trying to leave as best as feedback as possible so there isn't confusion or an appearance of 'crying just to cry'.

I'd like to see mini games themed around jobs. Like jumping puzzles for DRG like what playing music is to BRD or collecting spells for BLU. Basically, give jobs their own (limited) version to inject some much needed variety. Personally, I also love NIN's faster run speed or fall damage reduction. We need way, way more of that stuff.

Yeee . Do you have any mini-game suggestions for other jobs? Pushing on DRG and jumping puzzles, would there be new jumping puzzles dedicated to them? I've some thoughts on that but was curious what you were picturing.



--
I think I'll add some suggested/potential ideas later, but I appreciate all the ideas people added and feedback so far. It was more positive and constructive than I thought it would be. Normally more humbug and or just "I aint reading that" lol.

[Shougun]

Right so here are some suggestions I've thought of so far, they are not all inclusive or all needed. All fire starting ideas, not 'must be exactly this way' suggestions. I'll probably think of more later.. as an important reminder I don't want to see any class feel useless, and I understand if greater combat related ideas are not implemented or at least not right away, but ultimately yeah I think roleplay in just a whole sense, all systems, receiving loving would be really nice (so if you're a "no combat impact, or bust" person then that's fine, I want to see it anywhere and everywhere that we can without it causing massive problems).

First is an over arching concept to avoid damaging savage first runs or ultimate, is that these below effects perhaps only work where echo, solo, and open world content apply. This allows for better balance control. However, I am not opposed to them working in the most extreme content, so long as people realize it can and most likely will impact some metas... and you might see preferences. Naturally if jobs are pertinent at something some players will design the fun out of it, and players who live in that end game space (savage, no echo, and ultimate) should communicate those concerns if they have them. I am aware of some ultimate players who are like BRING IT ON, ILL PLAY WHAT I HAVE TO PLAY, BRING IT BOI. But I wont assume that's everyone and it's certainly not me playing in those end end game spaces.

Jobs:
Paladin-

• [Bring Back]: Shield skills, Shield types. Shield types that had different block chance vs block amount and shield skills that would give you 100% block chance or allow you to perform an attack based on blocking. Something that I recommend in general but here I'll mention too is passive actives, where a skill that sits and waits for an opportunity is set inside a skill that can be used (rather than slotting the dancer moves for example the dancer's dance changes other skills temporarily). For the purpose of itemization there would be minor horizontal progression (such that each shield type can be fairly compared, rather than having multiple types but it is irrelevant because item level trumps type). Balancing for ultimate, if we're going to avoid making things too unique then regardless of shield type it would be a direct amount blocked (based on some formula), and the shield effects activate at an expected interval rather than from chance.
• Recitation: Level 30 out of combat raise. When you gain Clemency, upgrade this skill instead into Clemency (which still heals, but out of combat can also be used on the dead). If you cast cover or intervention on a dead player it will allow you to raise them in combat (in echo-able content), intervention's buff duration is reset if the target is revived during it's duration (cover's duration would not but heals provided to the raised player will also be granted to you, at a %).
• Good Samaritan: Side quest exp is increased by 10%

Warrior:

• Infinite Grit: When rage is above 50, on a killing blow instead of dying activate a shorter version of holmgang in an AoE (10 minute cooldown separate to holmgang). [Reminder of the echo thing]
• Terrifying Bellow: Replaces reprisal. Causes enemies to cower for 5 seconds which is akin to a stun (in addition to damage dealt reduction, if enemies can ignore CC), and if tank stance is off and they don't take damage for the duration they will run away and lose aggro (took the idea from someone in this thread ). An aside note but I feel role actions could all slowly be thematically consumed, such that they do what they 'need' to do for tank kit purposes but then also may add thematic value to the tank rather than being generic. Here Bellow replaces reprisal, another example might be Shield Bash replacing Low Blow, or Shadow Skin replacing Rampart.
• Rock Breaker: Mini-game which is either a mix of the snake marbles game (Marbles Temple) or something else spherical and destructive lol. Unlocks warior specific glamours, and perhaps warrior specific ability glamours- like rage might have a fiery effect, or dragon ball z like stone effects. Think WoW glyph visual customization.
• Unstoppable Force: When warrior has rage > 50, movement CC cannot reduce warrior's movement speed below 80%

Dragoon:
Jump mechanics will use flight pathing when Dragoon has unlocked flying for the zone, and will use ground pathing when they have not. However, if it doesn't insanely break anything I honestly feel you should just unlock it all together for maximum feel. But I wanted to example how you could balance it if it was a massive concern (still consider just allowing it, and if they get somewhere funny then they get somewhere funny). Ninja would be likewise, where you can 'teleport' to vertical locations rather than being stuck on the horizontal plane.

• Light as a Dragon: You take no fall damage, might need to do this in general first (for all jobs), to improve jumping puzzle accessibility, but allow some directional input while falling (so minor input for everyone, and a bit more substantial for Dragoons).
• Plummet: If you hold spacebar while in the air, after a short delay, you will plummet to the ground and deal aoe damage in an area scaled to the height at which you fell, the effect will not take place if already in combat. Middling damage (to be fun but not so great that you feel you HAVE to enter combat like this), and will stun enemies if from a great enough height.
• Take to the skies: holding the spacebar will cause a bar to appear and charge up, based on time of charge the dragoon jumps significantly farther and with greater forward momentum. The timing will work such that a super fast tap is essentially the jump we all know, a .25 - .5 second tap will be like 50% higher jump than normal and then an exponential curve towards 2 seconds (where at 2 seconds you have a massive boost again).
• Dragon Blessings: Avatar fights (like FFXI for SMN) where you fight the avatar of major dragons, like Nidhogg, Bahamut, Hraesvelger, Vrtra, Midgardsormr. These fights add glamour options, including aura effects and special dye effects to artificat armor, and to your skills. So like you could have a Geirskogul that appears like Nidhogg's or a blue feathery effect inspired by Hraesvelger.
• Jumping Puzzles: Add more jumping puzzles to the world (but first perhaps improve movement systems), also please consider adding checkpoints (even if that checkpoint is perhaps introduced as a short term teleport device like GW2 has, something you earn). Perhaps some jump improvements, maybe via # of jumps accomplished and slots. Like slow fall plummet might make it so you greatly slow your fall and 'aim' your plummet (at a great distance even) so you could have a precision landing.
• Fresh Air: 50% exp bonus for sightseeing markers that are above ground.
• Dragon Sight: Reveals enemies with mana through walls, hidden enemies*, and also some mechanics for dragoon**. *Hidden enemies is not really a thing in FFXIV, but that goes back to this whole thread's point. FFXIV BRING THE ROLEPLAY. WHERE ARE THE CRITTERS? lol. ** Dragoon specific mechanics might be like while in mid flight you turn on dragon sight and it shows a platform you land on while doing a dragoon jumping puzzle (and part of that puzzle might be while sight is off you jump 'through' the platform and while falling you use slow plummet and dragon sight to then land /on/ the platform). Please be sure to make dragonsight cooldown friendly in those situations, so you don't suffer for the cooldown.
• Wyvern Hunter: Increases damage to dragon type enemies by 10%. Passively reveal the location of all nearby dragonkin on the map (can be turned off via a toggle). (Could have a story specific passive change too, so after completing a certain part in the MSQ the passive changes to represent some change with your relationship with dragons)

An aside but an item that could be fun to combine with this, perhaps under the toy section of ideas, is the Sun Wukong inspired seven league boots- such that while falling if you tap space bar you can pause on a cloud for a few seconds and jump from that cloud, every 5 seconds you fall you can reactivate the effect (and as a dragoon this effectively means you can fly lol, boots only work where you can fly perhaps).

Summoner:

• Egi Glamour Pilgrimage: Avatar fights (like FFXI) where you travel to primal summon locations and can solo primals in unreal like fights, where you earn glamour options for your summons (like belias looking ifirit egi, size, etc). As an aside please allow other players, in combat options, to tone down summons like Diablo 3 / 4, and I believe even WoW, does. So you can for example have a giant bahamut because it's cool, but for me your bahamut is a bit transparent and easy to see through.
• Primal-net: May teleport to any large mass of crystals that has been given faith (mostly just the primal crystals). Cooldown, free.
• Primal-Physik: Replace with a theme'd primal support skill based on the primal last active.
• Wings of a primal: once you've unlocked Bahamut you can slow glide by pressing spacebar while falling (spacebar again cancels it), when you unlock phoenix you can choose that effect if you want. Consumes mana per second.
• Aetherialmancy: Deal 10% additional damage to primarily aetherial constructed enemies (ghosts, summons, etc). Passively reveal the location of all nearby aetherial constructed enemies on the map (can be turned off via a toggle).

Potential ideas that may need a rework of the job which I am reticent on since it has been reworked so many times:

• [Bring Back]: EGI differences, in fact enhance them lol. Keep a mechanic that encourages cycling egi though, and allow a system that you can, at a cost, ignore or manipulate the cycle. Levithan - debuffer / support, Ramuh - single target and resource management / cooldown reduction, Shiva - tank and CC, Ifrit - single target, Garuda - aoe damage, Titan - tank and support. Due to the cycle mechanic you would want to alternate out of which ever is "BEST" for the situation, but it's important to know the situation so you can still make a cascade of choices based on what is available and what is going on.
• [Bring Back]: EGI HP. Allow summoner to toggle tangible and intangible outside of combat, increased aggro. Titan wont be able to tank savage content like before, but will be pretty good again. Phase summons such that the models change but the target doesn't, so if you had titan egi out with aggro and you cast bahamut then titan explodes into bahamut without any target change on the circle itself- seamless. When you shift a summon and it is tangible give it a 50% max hp heal. Player tank stance negates the effectiveness of SMN, such that no tank is going to fight a SMN for aggro due to them working tangibly.

Here are some more spitfire examples:

Black Mage:

• Emergency Landing: Holding space bar while falling will cause you to cast a ley line directly below you (on the ground), and you will teleport to it and then it'll vanish (about 1 second hold, release casts the teleport, naturally no fall damage). 15% mana cost. You can also use between leyline teleport skill while falling (to teleport to your combat version, if it's there).
• Far Flung: When out of combat aetherial manipulation has 10x the range, but the cooldown will increase by the distance traveled (up to a 1 min cooldown, non-linear growth so traveling only slightly farther than normal is negligible). You can cast this while mounted.

Reaper:
Like Dragoon remove the Z axis clamp, such that you could rift across a gap. If there is balance issues, like dragoon, make it so it relies on unlocking flight.

• Precision Rift: Holding rift skills will increase their range and show you where they will land, using your mouse you can choose a location (not that it's relevant but will use the ingress or egress depending on the 180 direction picked). Tapping will naturally just do the action expected, as already is.
• Friends like these: Out of combat, so long as you don't return through your own rift the rift will stay open 5x longer and allies can use it. The rift, if it wasn't clear, is to you - so a friend using a rift teleports to you. Perhaps to make it easy interacting with the portal OR jumping while 'on' the portal will cause an ally to use it.
• Void Return: Return recovers 50% more quickly (while you're a reaper, return 'returns' more quickly).
• Aetherial Harvest: Enemies have a chance to leave small bits of aether, which you can stand on to gain a small heal and cooldown reduction. Additional chance to cause voidsent monsters to heal you when engaging them (just by attacking).
• Voidsent Slayer: Increase damage to voidsent. Passively reveal the location of all nearby voidsent on the map (can be turned off via a toggle).

Bard:

• Bard's get a mini-game to play orchestra music (like the music mini-games we've had before) in NPC Inns / Taverns and other locations, unlocking instruments, special effects, and musical options for their music in combat (like you could play prelude for one of your battle songs). Of course players can turn off bard sounds in settings
• Musical mount, a mount made of musical notes that also allows the bard to play music they've composed (same player settings apply, if they want to ignore your song lol).
• Playing a song in one of the taverns in game once a day gives you a 20% rested bonus to your rested exp (if you had any room, it'll up it, if it's capped.. it's capped). Or you can alternatively play for a beast tribe to earn one token of their currency and 15% exp. <- May change to once per week, especially as one token is pretty good to be honest, but then I'd make the effect greater. Like 50% rested exp at inns and 3 tribe tokens and 40% bard exp.
• Players that listen to you play gain a buff similar in mechanics to a campfire listed below (exponential duration such that listening for 1 second is like 1 second duration, listening for 1 minute is like 10 minutes), giving you a movement speed bonus and exp bonus (bonus from other buffs capping at a certain % for balance sake and reducing player's need to feel like they need to hunt down 100 different exp bonuses). ONLY while listening cooldown timers are reduced at a faster rate.
• Marching Music: Replaces Peleton with a perpetual effect out of combat.
• Adventurer's Hum: While out of combat, may pick from a list of tracking options. Activating the ability gives you a little pop up and you can pick one (including the option to disable it entirely). Options include, beast, great enemy (B, A, and S ranks), and a story (story pings sightseeing locations and quests). You can choose all of them at once. They show up on your map .
  
  May place a few NPC bards throughout the game, that offer similar purposes. Perhaps sitting near the Yoshi-P bard might count for example.

Dancer:
Like Bard's musical options, except for dancing. There will be dancing mini games, perhaps like simon says with options (WoW has a darkfaire moonfire example I'd suggest as a begining concept).

• Unlocking additional dance option animations for combat (so you might change your red, green, blue, effects, or change the sfx colors), and dance options for your performance feature.
• Performance mount akin to bard, like a magic carpet you can perform on (so it makes sense you're dancing lol).
• Performance buff, again akin to bard, with the duration and exp concepts, but instead of movement speed it would be attack speed. ONLY while watching cooldown timers are reduced at a faster rate.

Some minor profession examples, though WoW has a lot of good ones. Generically just consider new craftable toys (that do stuff), and more mounts lol.
Alchemist: all potion durations are increased by 50%, all healing potency is also increased by 25% (where echo rules apply, so echo-able content- this wouldn't impact savage, until echo works, or ultimate at all).

I would generally just focus on neat things they can make and sell, although it would be interesting, imo, if there were a few items that were both neat and self crafted. So I know I gave the example of alchemist impacting potions but my thought would be, rather than that, make sure there are a lot of neat things to craft that can be sold / shared, and then each class also gets a little self present that you can make and it can't be sold (perhaps mechanically it shares, like a magical campfire, but in the sense you can't give that item- it's special to you because you knew the tricks of the trade and profession and made it for yourself). There could also be/alternatively be bonus effects when you use an item. Like for the jumping puzzles if you wanted a position resetter / checkpoint tool, you can have one but it takes level 50 alchemist and goldsmith to make a toy bound to just you OR that you make it and can sell it, but IF you're those jobs you get a cooldown reduction on it's timer.

Items / 'Toys':

• Positional Person Plopper: On use saves your position, on reuse will put you back to that position. The buff perhaps lasts 5 minutes, and then the contraption goes on cooldown. If you use the ability it will consume the buff, teleport you, and then go on cooldown as well.
• Wander's campfire(perhaps moved to the 'toy box'): grants a buff that increases exp, hp, and mp regeneration, and lasts a non-linear amount of time spent by the fire up to 25 minutes. For example you sit by the fire for 5 seconds, you get 5 seconds practically, you sit by 30 seconds and it's like 5 minutes already. 25 minutes might be 2 minutes hanging out. ONLY while resting cooldown timers are reduced at a faster rate. S'mores as an additional item, perhaps if you have them in your inventory you can roast them or if you eat them they have like double duration (food exp buff, double duration ). Right clicking the campfire when you have seat ('toys', again move them if needed, rather than minions) allows you to organize around the fire, increasing exp gained.
• Gysal Cannon: Fires a Gysal green at target / location (if you have a target, it'll do that first). Summoning your chocobo at location with a chocobo pound (like fat chocobo). If your chocobo is already summoned it will move them there. Takes like 250 Gysals to make, and other ingredients, but has infinite charge (with a cooldown- which is reset if your chocobo is dead).
• Moogle flute: Like FFIX, allows you to check your mail, send items to your retainers, and purchase and sell minor items (imo it would be neat if it was upgraded and tied to moogle post quests and or moogle tribe).
• Firework Excelsior 3000: Or whatever name, an interactable firework pile with cooldown. Allows players to change their ability row to some fireworks.
• Ice Crystal Packed Snow Balls: Allows you to start a game of a snowball, players who join will get snowball HP with laser tag like rules. Mini game.
• Seven Leagues Boots: Sun Wukong inspired, when pressing space bar while falling (trumps other space bar activated skills), will stop you on a magical cloud platform for a few seconds (allowing you to double jump). Cannot reactivate for X seconds (perhaps either short cooldown or Dragoons have a unique interaction and it's shorter for them).
• Leaping Lizzy Boots: Allows you to mimic dragoon's jump
• Port-a-net Tent (TM, lol): Set up a small camp with an aethernet. When you use return you can choose this location (or your generic home point). Rested exp (plays classic FF tent / sleep music on logout). Can upgrade for a repair station.
• Adventurer's Compass: Follows your heart's desire, similar to Bard's tracking skill- perhaps purchased through hunt tokens and then upgraded through further hunt tokens lol. Start with B rank ping, then A, S, and sightseeing. Short cooldown, detects multiple things at once and points them out in a fuzzy radius that is made more specific the closer you are.
• Soup Kitchen: When casting it'll ask if you want to open the kitchen to everyone or your party. Allows you to craft any food item at the station that is 10 levels below your job, at 100% chance, and then share that creation with your target audience. Give it like 10 charges or something. Can be used in instanced content (bear in mind again, it's 10 levels lower- this is on the basis of ignoring crafting mechanics but also that we're essentially duplicating the recipe at the cost of 1).
• Atomic Nearly-Autonomous Repairing Automaton: A repair station that players can interact with, if you prime it with dark matter (will ask at cast), will also allow players to repair proportionally to above 100% repair (based on the level of the gear, your craft, and which type of dark matter was supplied). Other players will have to pay gil. You may use this station yourself at no cost, but to go above 100% will still require the dark matter when summoned (I assume this is a difficult to craft robot, that is either rare/ex and one of those neat crafter milestones or decently expensive). Can be used in instanced content. There is a cooldown. If a new mechanic can be suggested, right clicking dark matter highlights your cursor and then when you right click gear you activate the crafter repair window; however, if you click the automaton it will summon them with that dark matter primed.
• Bottomless Potion of Limited Perspective: Shrinks the player, you can drink it again to shrink again, and again... and again.... Each stack reduces the duration, the first two drinks you can manually cancel the debuff, the last two are perhaps forced (but quite short). So like 5 seconds of being hilariously tiny, like chigoe size lol. But if you just wanted to be quite short (1 or 2 drinks) it would last several minutes. For even more QoL friendliness, add a chug buff. So if you drink, you shrink and get like 5 minute small effect, with 10 second chug effect. If you drink again while chug is in effect you shrink again, reduce duration (2 minutes!), and reset chug debuff duration, etc, etc. Alternatively if chug falls off, rather than shrinking, you just extend the duration at the scale you are if you drink again. This concept can be applied to other things too. Just adds a layer of friendly QoL for players who are roleplaying something for whatever reason. Is it needed.. no.. but I think being thought like this adds an extra layer.

[Shougun]

It's raining Wuk right now oh my goodness make it stop lol. If you're coming to this thread later and have no idea what I'm referencing then the dark times have passed, if you're visiting now.. Maybe this thread can be a different thing for you to be frustrated about

I, besides Wuk this and would Wuk Wuk chuck that, had thought about bumping this thread for another reason. I was recently leveling Ninja so I got to reread a lot of the skills and I noticed (more accurately I vaguely knew already, but got to 'feel' the roleplay) the roleplay baked in a way that other jobs don't really get much of (or is quickly removed lol). To be honest Ninja is a job I don't normally play because the theme doesn't really speak to me (I don't dislike it, it's not negative, it's just not as high as others).

My feeling as a whole that "FFXIV does not do a good job, or at least should do a much better job, at the R in RPG" is still the same, yet I did want to recognize Ninja for having a lot of elements, more than I had really paid attention to from the distance of a 'non' ninja player, and wanted to give an internal example of what we should see more of, a lot more. As you can see from OP I gave examples of what other games have done well, but it is nice to point internally and say "this, do this, but more".

NINJA:
- Hide, Hides you from enemies up to 10 levels higher than your own, also has combat effects (things like this are fantastic roleplay because its not just a button for the goofs, yet provides it as well)
- Mug, Increases the chance of items being dropped by the target
- Fleet of Foot, Increases movement speed
- All Fours, Decreases fall damage
- Multi-option and fairly unique cast mechanic (*waves frantically at blue mage, I see this ability in you-- YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT SE, YOU COULD HAVE HAD IT ALL*)

As an aside, as I mainly leveled Ninja via PvP (but did use it in PvE), I still want to say the PvP kits are quite neat and very thematic.. I wish I felt consistently similarly for the PvE kits.

Now I don't want to say that's 'jobs done' because I feel even Ninja might have some touch ups, but it's a fairly concentrated example. I mean I gave mug some minor testing and I can tell you that it's fairly fickle and due to the cooldown and requirements a bit annoying to use in the sense you might think of it, but still cool that it exists. Even better if they can buff it . On the first page you can see the Vulpix have a bag of tricks mechanic, might be Ninja mugs an enemy and gets a small effect item from it (that will vanish after use or mug cooldown completes), while increasing chance of items dropped (from non-boss situations). Honestly could just be improved drop mechanics lol, but I think bringing back the 'steal' mechanic that is present in other FF (even if just in spirit) would be cool.

So, Ninja, an example where they, imo, started to go the right direction, and one I hope they could bring to other jobs. The post above this you can see /SUGGESTIONS/ for unique effects (suggestions capped because it's not like "IF PALADIN DOESNT GET BONUS SIDE QUEST EXP, IM GOING TO CRY AND MAIL THOSE TEARS TO YOSHIP AS BATH WATER").

Will probably come back around to bump for other jobs, but just wanted to write about how I thought Ninja was a step in the right direction and wish the other jobs, and Ninja, could continue in that direction. Of course it's not just about jobs, but that is certainly a start.

Bring the R in RPG forwards please :3

[Hycinthus]

Agree with all of this. And we don’t mean all has to be copied 1:1, but we need to copy the spirit of this idea. I hope DT will introduce some.

[Shougun]

Agree with all of this. And we don’t mean all has to be copied 1:1, but we need to copy the spirit of this idea. I hope DT will introduce some.

I want to hyper stress this, I didn't list a bunch of stuff because I wanted it copied exactly, especially from another game (but in general as well), as it has to be 'roleplay' and it's not roleplay if it's not even your lore (/role). I really don't care if NONE of it was used.. but if the spirit of it was.. Heck yeah!

Also thank you, and I encourage people to suggest their roleplay ideas. It doesn't have to be for a combat job, could be anything.

[Ritsuka-55]

This game is anything but a roleplaying game. I don't know if it's really fixeable, and no, having an option for choosing a race, barely counts as roleplaying.