Breaking the Majority’s Silence: A Job Criticism Thread

[Fahrih]

(Inspired by Synodic Scribe’s YouTube video “Final Fantasy 14’s Future, the Minority Vs Majority must End”. Feel free to make separate threads using the “Breaking the Majority's Silence” phrase to talk about different topics.)

As mentioned in the inspiration video, this game has always had a problem with the Vocal Minority Vs the Silent Majority; the loud people that want change, and the quiet people simply content with what’s currently there, who don’t see a reason to provide feedback if that feedback is nothing more than “yeah I like it.” And yet that feedback does have value, because if the vocal minority talks trash about what the silent majority wants to stay, the devs are going to change it, because they hear “thing bad” and not a single “thing good”.

So I want to take a step forward and try and gather the people that are silent and get them to contribute their voice. An open thread only for people to send messages to the devs without fear of your fellow man talking smack for your opinions.

To set an example, allow me to start.

I am, primarily, a Savage raider. I go about it casually, though. My strongest opinion is about job identity and how homogenization has harmed it. I could not care less about how one job can out-dps another, or how homogenization “can fix that,” I want the jobs to be unique, fun, and reflect lore in their mechanics. Red Mage, for example, is fantastic for keeping to its simple task of balancing Black and White magics. Astrologian’s cards are a great way to spice up a healer’s rotation, and Astrodyne is probably one of my favorite abilities in the game just for being a unique big self buff. I think jobs need individual flavor, comparisons be damned. I don’t care about “strongest party compositions”, I just want to play what’s fun to me, and it’s rough when the people who care so much about optimization start taking away the flavors of the jobs from everyone else.

Short and to the point, just my two cents. If no one agrees, then fine, I can live with that. But if I’m sitting on this opinion without knowing that I’m actually in the majority? That’s why I’m making this: to let people find out if they’ve been in the majority all along, and never dared to voice their opinions for fear of being the minority, in the “wrong.”

There is no wrong in this thread. Just a voice, and a right to speak.

[Jeeqbit]

The problem is you are assuming you are part of the majority. Most people on these forums say the same thing as you just said and people on these forums are regarded as a minority. So what if you are actually part of the minority?

Either way, people on these forums are anything but "silent" so this isn't where you're going to find the silent people.

[AnnRam]

As long this game it's meant to be played in consoles you won't have more skills or complex rotations.

I won't be surprised if in the next expansion jobs only gain new visuals/ traits and probably 1 or 2 new skills max.

[Kaurhz]

As long this game it's meant to be played in consoles you won't have more skills or complex rotations.

I won't be surprised if in the next expansion jobs only gain new visuals/ traits and probably 1 or 2 new skills max.

I don't even think console would be the problem in the case of more complex skills or rotations. With the XHB there's really an abundance of accessible hotbars. It's just entirely a matter of people taking that step to learn what is provided to them.

[NekoMataMata]

As long this game it's meant to be played in consoles you won't have more skills or complex rotations.

I won't be surprised if in the next expansion jobs only gain new visuals/ traits and probably 1 or 2 new skills max.

Are we ever going to stop using console players as a martyr? There's so much button bloat that could be condensed that could be done free up slots for new skills and increase rotation complexity.

Your 1-2-3 and 1-2 combos don't need 3 separate slots. Skills linked to each other like Ley Lines and Between the Lines don't need to be two separate buttons when Between the Lines is only usable when Ley Lines is up and you could easily have it pop up there just like how Salt and Darkness replaces Salted Earth for DRK.

There's one job that would still suffer if they did all this, and thats Monk. AND honestly... it'd be fine. One job out of soon to be 21 main jobs that console players might struggle with is fine.

Also, this:

I don't even think console would be the problem in the case of more complex skills or rotations. With the XHB there's really an abundance of accessible hotbars. It's just entirely a matter of people taking that step to learn what is provided to them.

You have 3 full cross hotbars or 48 slots total, along with whatever you assign your stick buttons to. It's a bit full on some jobs, but it's usable. Literally just a bit of button condensation and they can keep expanding.

[Teno]

As long this game it's meant to be played in consoles you won't have more skills or complex rotations.

I won't be surprised if in the next expansion jobs only gain new visuals/ traits and probably 1 or 2 new skills max.

That's very wrong, the game has worked perfectly well with more complex rotations for the past 10 years, until they started pruning jobs. The controller integration is also great, this has never been an issue for complexity.

[MsMisato]

As long this game it's meant to be played in consoles you won't have more skills or complex rotations.

I won't be surprised if in the next expansion jobs only gain new visuals/ traits and probably 1 or 2 new skills max.

kind of funny how FFXI online had way more weaponskills, buffs, debuffs, spells than this game and it was originally console only and it did just fine. Its not console its the playerbase that is making FFXIV a simpleton game.

[LioJen]

PVP shows you don't need complex rotations to have unique action identity.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

PVP shows you don't need complex rotations to have unique action identity.

*waits for people to realize that HP spender with limitations and using HP lifesteal as a way to fund them + get a small bonus on top is a way to design a job*

*looks at PvP Dark Knight*

Yeah.

[Shougun]

PVP shows you don't need complex rotations to have unique action identity.

I almost universally prefer the PvP kits to the PvE kits lol. There are a few PvE kits that I also like, but the jobs are so well expressed in so few buttons in PvP that I just appreciate them on multiple levels. That and I'm not really particular for loads of buttons, I just want really 'cool' buttons that make me feel like whatever its trying to convey.

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Also I don't really see exactly what OP is claiming happens, in the sense of it at least. By that I mean someone may feel X job is imbalanced and wants to be on equal power footing but rarely, if ever, is it said "I want the same kit". It just happens to be a reliable way to balance jobs when they are more similar.

Naturally people will be upset if some jobs are just better at X Y Z given their unique aspect shinning in whatever scene fits it best, so balance will always be do you lose or do you lose lol. Personally I'd like to balance ( . . . .) the losing between unique and not so far that only jerks and the highest end of content (ultimate) will kick you if you're not optimally spec'd (in this case optimally job selected). I can't see how you can avoid the highest end having an impact here, since every element matters and uniqueness, if combat represented, will produce variations that fit better in specific situations (though the stat party bonus thing helps avoid stacking).

PERSONALLY, I actually believe the / most / likely culprit of why things are similar are not casual players who play BLM like an ice-mage, as is often suggested. Those players were going to be bad anyways, and wouldn't know what to suggest or why for. I believe most likely its people who are pinching %s via log websites and care about the top end of content (whether they are dreaming of doing it or actually doing it). Imo, balance is most irrelevant in the casual MSQ-only space.

So if we had to point fingers (we dont. . . haha), going to point at the space where numbers actually start to matter- and that's not where your ice mage is. Not that it was OP's point on casual vs savage, just that I see savage people ask for better balance and then more often then not also are the ones that will blame casual players for the homogenization.

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Anyway my 'silent' take (lol post count, yee real silent), from a willfully casual player* is that I wish to see, without huge damage to balance (but some can be given up), the jobs gain more identity. Outside of combat I also would really like to see some roleplay elements too, such that when I have a job selected I really feel that I'm that job both in AND out of combat.

Due to WoW's The War Within expansion stuff I was just curious how they were doing, and immediately I was slapped with tangible differences. Whether I was gaining cool self mount shape shifting, walking on water, teleporting myself around, seeing through walls and gliding, or sneaking and unlocking doors and chests, or using racials, it was a big difference. They're adding warbands which will essentially make WoW have a job system like FFXIV.. On top of the natural roleplay that they have, and fairly large differences in classes (which does lead to some specs being forbidden from high end content), they are also adding an additional element of roleplay in hero talents.. Not that I think we should have racials, but just an example. An example that doesn't end, as the crafting classes often have cool roleplay gimmicks, and they have that whole toy chest full of neat world interactions.

That and they are making Dragon Riding mechanic mount default, a system likely inspired by GW2's best in MMO class system (and one I have been asking FFXIV to add, prior to GW2 even adding it... lol).

While playing WoW I was instantly missing a lot of things in FFXIV (and left mostly not with "wow WoW is better" but "Man I feel WoW is getting hungry, has these neat things and is going to take other best of class elements from FFXIV, and other games, meanwhile I'm not certain FFXIV can or will even bother to do similar... I want to play FFXIV /over/ WoW but I am respecting where they are at and more particularly where they are going- it sounds like a fantastic plan", so I'm not saying "WoW better" but definitely felt I wish to see FFXIV reverse uno'd the thing Blizzard was famous for (even WoW recently stating some 'respecting player's time' bits that FFXIV is generally more famous for).


*(have and used to play MMOs more end game, I have for many years now chose not to as I don't feel it's a good use of time to value of fun anymore)