I really don’t know anymore….

[GoatOfWar]

I really don't see why healer kits have to be designed around bad players? We don't see tanks gets their offensive kit ripped to shreds because some of them are bad at pressing defensives. I saw a WAR die to the buster today because he didn't use CDs, should we remove IR and replace it with more defensive CDs?

It's unfortunate when you meet people who refuse to press GCDs even when required, but they're bad players and I'm sick of people covering for players like that because "Well, the community says you shouldn't use GCD heals....". Healers not using a GCD heal when required is bad play, same as tanks not using CDs for tankbusters and DPS not using AoE in big pulls.

Bad players are one of the reasons they keep buffing War tbf

[lennit]

i don't want to play a healer as a dps with one dot and one rock, i want to play healer as a healer that heals, if i have to dps, i will play a dps class, that why i play monk now and i will tell tanks now to heal yourself

[Zolvolt]

I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to disagree with you. To GCD heal or to only use OGCD healing is a choice. Game isn’t designed one way or the other. You have the skills so use them. The problem is people are lazy and want things to be easy. If the spell doesn’t go off immediately they don’t wanna use it.

However, in white mage case. I get it sorta. Using lilies gets you closer to blood lily but even that shouldn’t stop you from using a singular medica 2 out of maybe 15 raptures. I’m not giving healers a pass on this. When I heal I utilize my entire kit. Meaning gcd and ogcd healing. Can’t tell you how many times I use emergency tactics and succor for a pure heal and it’s fine. I’m not gonna die if I use it. The point I’m trying to make here is you’re a healer. Utilize your entire kit. That’s the difference between a decent healer and an amazing one in my book.

Also I’ve been playing this game since the beginning and the community conditioned itself with this mentality.

There are very few mechanics that require GCD healing, dungeons don't require them at all. Alliance raids don't require them at all. Normal raids don't require them at all. White mage's lilly and spreadlo withstanding, GCD healing when you don't need it is not necessary so why would you play poorly on purpose? The difference between good healers and bad healers is thus: you only GCD heal when necessary and summarily, one of the leading causes of why healing is easy and poorly designed in this game.

[Renathras]

The truth is that it feels bad to have to GCD heal because we are designed around not having to do so and this is one of the biggest problems that should be addressed in healer design.

Also I’ve been playing this game since the beginning and the community conditioned itself with this mentality.

For better or worse, I honestly kind of agree with both of you.

The Healer kits ARE mostly designed for oGCD healing, especially combined with encounter design. There's a lot of movement and "the dance", and damage spikes timed out to fit like puzzle pieces into oGCD healing CDs. Further, in addition to being DPS losses, GCD healing isn't sustainable. To actually heal the amounts required, you need to be using spells like Cure 2, Medica 2, and Cure 3, which are MASSIVE MP hogs and are very MP negative. They're not only costing you DPS, but they cost so much MP, they are literally not sustainable for long fights since several Jobs are approximately MP neutral casting their 400 MP DoT and Spamnuke, meaning they are MP negative casting any heal that isn't Cure 1 or Regen (also 400 MP). Lilies are the only thing that gets a pass, but they're pseudo oGCDs pretending to be GCDs (they're instant cast, require no MP, have an effective CD based on Lily generation, and are damage neutral vs your spamnuke). But the short version there is: GCD healing is MP negative to the point of not being sustainable, even if the movement and potency issues aren't preventing you from doing it ourgith. Collectively, this falls somewhere between "heavily encouraging" and "outright requiring" oGCD healing.

[ Though to be fair: Low Leveling dungeons and early 24 mans DO require GCD healing, since you don't have oGCD healing to do the job...at least not on all the healers. Try to oGCD heal only a Labyrinth run on WHM; your only oGCD is Benediction. ]

...but it's also true that the community did condition itself to this mentality. To the point that even when people CAN GCD heal, they often do choose not to. And that when people do deign to use GCD heals (other than Lilies), even somewhat effective ones (like Regen), it's defined as "bad play". The extreme versions of this even go so far as to suggest not using Aetherflow on Energy Drains is bad play or that using Lilies when Misery wasn't damage neutral was bad play...even when those things aren't necessary to beat enrages and where doing the alternative (that is, chadding on your co-healer who has to pick up the slack) is definitely a dick move, even if it's not OUTRIGHT suboptimal (though if often could be as well), and it just feels bad.

Some people also have no idea how to have a 'prog mindset', and just immediately jump to 'optimize mode', partially the reason we get these situations in new content where the WHM is spamming Glare as the party falls around them

Yeah, I don't know what causes the Glarespam WHM "until the heavens fall", but it's the weirdest thing to me to see a WHM continuing to chain cast Glare when 5-6 party members are dead, including the other healer. That's more like bot mentality than sentient person mentality.

i don't want to play a healer as a dps with one dot and one rock, i want to play healer as a healer that heals, if i have to dps, i will play a dps class, that why i play monk now and i will tell tanks now to heal yourself

Absolutely agreed.

If Healers became "supports" - a euphamism to mean "DPSers with better ques" - then I'd just quit the role. I've no interest in playing a DPS Job as a healer. I want to play a healer as a healer. If I'm going to be a "supports", I'd just play RDM or DNC or PLD or SMN. If they butchered the healer role that badly - because that's what it would be - I'd just swap to playing PLD and/or SMN, or possibly just quit the game if it was bad enough. Horrible decision, and so many people wanting it boggles my mind. I'd much rather they diversify the role and give the healer Jobs niches like buffer, heal focus, and damage focus instead, then at least there'd be some assurance at least one of them wouldn't suck and be a worse DPS Job.

[Sebazy]

If Healers became "supports" - a euphamism to mean "DPSers with better ques" - then I'd just quit the role.

I'd much rather they diversify the role and give the healer Jobs niches like buffer, heal focus, and damage focus instead, then at least there'd be some assurance at least one of them wouldn't suck and be a worse DPS Job.

Isn't a support by definition a buffer though?

When I push healers as supports, I don't mean more DPS buttons, I mean more HW/SB AST. Buffs, debuffs. Supportive abilities. Not raw nukes and dots. Sure, all roads eventually lead to damage dealt town, but there's way you can obfuscate it in a way that helps the healer fantasy. How about a maintainable GCD damage buff that boosts damage akin to old Spirits Within? Oh hey suddenly there's a reason to actually heal people rather than letting Soil/Asylum take care of it over however long it needs.

The other question is, tell me what purpose a specifically heal focused healer brings in mainstream content given that A) Pure healers have shields and shield healers have pure heals+regens as is & B) Existing healers kits are way overtuned already. Lastly, how do you stop that healing focused healer being needlessly excluded and shunned akin to WHM in 3.4-3.5?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely against SE scatter gunning the healers down a bunch of different paths. If anything I think it's actually a good idea to diversify the role for an expansion to see what sticks. In the longer term though, I've got absolutely zero faith in them being able to do a good job of all 4 healers at this stage. It'd be a case of seeing what works and then taking ones that inevitably crash and burn down the popular road.

Yeah, I don't know what causes the Glarespam WHM "until the heavens fall", but it's the weirdest thing to me to see a WHM continuing to chain cast Glare when 5-6 party members are dead, including the other healer. That's more like bot mentality than sentient person mentality.

I'm still of the mindset that if the role was worth paying attention to in a 24 man then people would be more likely to actually pay attention. If I see that, I just assume they are watching something on the second screen and paying zero attention whatsoever and frankly, I can't even blame them. Aglaia had me wishing I could bring myself to do the same TBH.

[ty_taurus]

Isn't a support by definition a buffer though?

A “support” is any character or class in a game that provides a meaningful amount of utility and/or increases the damage of other party members that makes an encounter easier.

All healers are supports, but not all supports are healers. This is because healing (also known as sustain) is a form of utility, but is not the only form of utility a game can offer.

[SweetPete]

I just want to be clear because I see that there is sorta some confusion. I have no issues at all with OGCD healing. If it’s available use it over GCD if you want. Not here to tell anyone when you use what. My issue is when your OGCDs are on CD and we taking damage then use GCD healing.

That’s where I was going with this entire post. People make mistakes in raids all the time that will maybe make you use an OGCD heal sooner than you wanted so it’s not available when you need it. Don’t just screw over your team because you don’t wanna use a GCD heal. It’s ridiculous. I’ve literally had many and many more healers tell me “Well they got a vulnerability stack not my problem. Don’t get hit. I don’t GCD heal anyone” or “If I don’t have any OGCD heals up and rdy for raids wides then oh well” like I’ve heard it all from many healers. Allot of them have this mindset. It’s disgusting. That doesn’t make you a good healer at all.

I am a healer first before anything else. I love dps as a healer like 95% of you. No problem with that at all but when you neglect your main role. It’s disgusting and shameful. It’s like a tank who refuses to use tank stance or provoke when he needs to. It’s like a physical ranged refusing to use their many buffs for faster clear. Everyone has a role here and it needs to be played to its core. Just like we hold bad tanks accountable we need to hold bad healers accountable too. This only OGCD healing mindset needs to go.

I’m happy when healers are held accountable. I was in a group where I was healing my little heart out while my whm partner only used rapture. No lily bell, no single target healing even ogcd. Most of the party called him out. He got mad and left. I was happy. Yeah when you don’t go your job then you should be called out. I’m not asking to spam heals like it’s all you can do but come on.

Let’s be real here.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

1 button dps vs 10 buttons dps, or 1 ultra heal button vs 10 heal buttons won't make those bad healer heals when they actually need to.

But why improve anyway when there are many instances of bad plays are actually enabled or even encouraged? lol.

[SweetPete]

1 button dps vs 10 buttons dps, or 1 ultra heal button vs 10 heal buttons won't make those bad healer heals when they actually need to.

But why improve anyway when there are many instances of bad plays are actually enabled or even encouraged? lol.

Say it louder. Lol

[Zolvolt]

I just don't understand why we have 4 healers and they all function very similarly. We have the space to make 1/2 of healers more complicated and still keep 1/2 simple.