The Tragedy about Manderville vs Brilliant Relics

[Raven2014]

yikes? they were just trying to agree with you and you attack them because you didnt like HOW? makes it hard for me to empathise now incase i step on some eggshell

Because it's the kind of "agreement" that adds nothing to the discussion and just the same old "rant"?

Like, if I made a post saying "I think the game has this flaw and be better if they do this, what do you think?" to start a discussion. Then another person come over and reply "YEAH YEAH, YOU'RE SO RIGHT, THIS GAME SUCK SO FREAKING BAD! OMG IT'S DYING WHY WE'RE EVEN HERE!". Then yeah, I probably gonna tell that person to go pound sand as well, even if technically they agree with what I said.

Believe it or not, some people are more interested in having a proper discussion then seeking validation in an echo chamber. And reason why proper discussion is so hard to come across because people are more interested in beating a deadhorse.

[DiaDeem]

yikes? they were just trying to agree with you and you attack them because you didnt like HOW? makes it hard for me to empathise now incase i step on some eggshell

First: They weren't trying to agree with me, they called the game a "dumpster fire" which I never said and has nothing to do with my thread.
Second: I didn't attack them, I simply called them out because... look above.
Third: Ath came back and simply commented about XIV requiring more Midcore content, to which I agreed and we just ended our interaction in peace and moved on.
Fourth: Whether you empathize or not is irrelevant to me. You're entitled to whatever personal opinion you may have about the relics. That's the point of a good discussion. Plenty of people have chimed in with a bunch of different points of view. Some agreed, some didn't. Most people in the thread have remained respectful, regardless of how opposite some takes have been, and I appreciate that. I've tried to do the same.

I know some people in these forums seem to love to antagonize each other, but I couldn't care less about that. I propose a thread, chime in (or don't), and hopefully we can share genuine takes that the devs may see instead of using hyperbolic language that doesn't really contribute anything. If you can vibe with that, cool. If not... I don't know what else to tell you.

[Syln]

I mean the engagement metric is such a silly one to use in this case, if you follow that narrative then make it so you just have to talk to an NPC to get your free relic every major patch and they'll have their engagement metric sky rocket.

I just can't understand how they managed to come to the conclusion that more engagement at the cost of entertainment was a good thing.

[Hyperia]

I remember the ARR relic vividly, it was Grundy hard fun and I loved it as it filled the content void like a champ. HW relic was ok, not as intense but still a good journey. The HW WHM cane is still my current glam. SB and ShB were less memorable though I loved the NM train in Anemos, best social relic quest ever. ShB was ok, optional route was handy when I had rotten luck. Then there is the vendor relic… err tome weapon, calling it a relic is an insult in my opinion.

[Toutatis]

gathering 200 thingies or crafting x pther things isn't very engaging, it's easy but just boring. How fun is it to click a node over and over? Or buying mats and hit two macros? I take roulettes over that.

I remember the ARR relic vividly, it was Grundy hard fun and I loved it as it filled the content void like a champ.

ARR relic was downright masochistic. Nine books, killing random mobs, waiting and waiting for queue for specific dungeons to pop and as well as specific fates is your idea of fun? Then farm light doing the same few dungeons over and over? At least today we can speed run most of this ARR nonsense.

[weebtext]

Just like some others in the thread, I remember my experience with past relic grinds quite fondly even though I only did ARR and HWs during ShB/EW.
For ARR's I remember chatting to friends while doing the books/light farm whenever I felt the urge to. Having a good time chatting with others also working on their HW relics during the light farm and victory laps in PFs. SB's I actually did when it was current, I loved every moment of Eureka trains, everybody screaming in shout chat after getting flashbanged by Pagos heatwaves, THE TRAIN IS DEAD LONG LIVE THE CHAIN, every god damn moment was fun. BA is also extremely fun. ShB's was a nice upgrade from SB's, I did it entirely in Bozja as well. CLL, DR and Dal are probably my favorite pieces of content in the game. Also Red Chocobo, love that fella.
I don't even know what EW relics I have.

Ultimately I think there's one key thing all these relics have that EW's is sorely lacking, and that's a sense of community. I wish I had been able to do ARR/HW's when they were current, but at the very least with SB/ShB's they actually made the MMO FEEL like an MMO. I enjoy a big grind, but doing it with others can make even the worst steps enjoyable. While I do enjoy Hildibrand on it's own, they really don't feel like relics. I don't feel like I'm working towards the same goal as others when I queue into a roulette, I'm not having fun running whatever the roulette picks since I've done it all hundreds of times for the past 6 years.

[KitingGenbu]

I forgot how engaging it used to be farming a trial over and over again for lights. Real pinnacle of engagment there. Or better yet! Farming Fates for random drops (and before anyone talks about how 'engaging' bozja/eureka were, that's essentially all you were doing, fate farming for most of it just in a different area). Definitely the developments best work. I wont defend what they did now, but lets not pretend previous stuff was honestly great either. At least if I want to get tomes, I can do pvp or almost anything else for them.

[Hyperia]

gathering 200 thingies or crafting x pther things isn't very engaging, it's easy but just boring. How fun is it to click a node over? Or buying mats and his two macros? I take roulettes over that.

ARR relic was downright masochistic. Nine books, killing random mobs, waiting and waiting for queue for specific dungeons to pop and as well as specific fates is your idea of fun? Then farm light doing the same few dungeons over and over? At least today we can speed run most of this ARR nonsense.

Not sure you were there but when it was on content, but when it was released, it was spread out over 5 patches and it was not as bad as you may think. You had 3 months to do each step so it was very manageable and I eventually ended up doing 3 full relics while I helped friends do theirs.

[Deceptus]

I quite honestly like the fact that relics are tied to Tier 2 tomes but I wish CBU3 went about it differently.

They could have easily put a relic mat on each individual roulette as part of the process which would get people in there and help players that needed them.

And still had roughly the same result as it is now.

[TheRealQuah]

People complained ARR relic was to RNG.
People complained the Heavensward relic had too many objectives.
People complained Eureka was boring and grindy.
People complained Bozja forced you to do long instances with pointless actions

They were all engaging in different ways, but the playerbase complained, and so they were given what they wanted this time.

You can have a fun engaging relic, but the majority of players don't want it. They want fast and easy.