Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Supersnow845]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

[Shurrikhan]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

Guess I'll go and try it, if only for science. DDs thus far have been so barebone that even that feels pretty "ugh" for me.

If it ends up being more of the same, then... yeah, seems like it'd be a waste of time compared to just expanding the ilvl span of the former DDs.


Which kinda sucks, in that, fundamentally or in terms of prospects, it's the among the kinds of content that would most appeal to me... if only it weren't about minimizing development costs per hour of grind produced instead of maximizing what could be done with procedurally generated environments.


EDIT: Well, that was about as disappointing as I should have expected. Just the newest skin on identical gameplay/playflow.

[OgruMogru]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

EO was alright. Too similar to the first iteration imo. I cleared it twice and do not feel inclined to go in again. I just really don't like all the side content having progression systems that do not exist in any other part of the game. It robs these interesting[ish] ideas of any real impact. I also... kinda.... really enjoyed og diadem. It was a MESS but it was fun to try my luck at getting one of the rare bullshit weapon drops.

[Saraide]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

I'm not a deep dungeon fan at all but the one person from my FC who I saw in PotD a lot seemingly hasnt touched it. Personally I dont find the concept all that interesting and PotD has also soured me on a lot of it (having an upgrade chest explode in your face while you're already starved for upgrades isnt that fun). To fix deep dungeons for me I think I would need a boss rush mode without the aetherpool system. The trash floors are simply not interesting to me. Either that or go radically different and make a proper roguelite game mode out of it with whacky actions, upgrades and passive items.

[Renalt]

I'm not a deep dungeon fan at all but the one person from my FC who I saw in PotD a lot seemingly hasnt touched it. Personally I dont find the concept all that interesting and PotD has also soured me on a lot of it (having an upgrade chest explode in your face while you're already starved for upgrades isnt that fun). To fix deep dungeons for me I think I would need a boss rush mode without the aetherpool system. The trash floors are simply not interesting to me. Either that or go radically different and make a proper roguelite game mode out of it with whacky actions, upgrades and passive items.

Now that I think about it I'd like to see a roguelike mode but also make use of the Lost Actions. That way some runs will be doomed for failure, others will be hard fought, and if you are lucky you become "Binding of Issac" levels of busted and just laser down everything like a living Death Machine.

[ChrysOCE]

I'm not a deep dungeon fan at all but the one person from my FC who I saw in PotD a lot seemingly hasnt touched it. Personally I dont find the concept all that interesting and PotD has also soured me on a lot of it (having an upgrade chest explode in your face while you're already starved for upgrades isnt that fun). To fix deep dungeons for me I think I would need a boss rush mode without the aetherpool system. The trash floors are simply not interesting to me. Either that or go radically different and make a proper roguelite game mode out of it with whacky actions, upgrades and passive items.

You know what would be cool? FFXII trial mode, where you fight a series of monsters/bosses from stage (floor) 1 to 100. That was pretty cool. A FFXIV iteration of that, as a deep dungeon, could be neat.

[ChrysOCE]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

Honestly, from my view, waste of space that needs to be better. Feels like its one of those things that you either do on release, go mad and do solo, or try and hope to try and convince your friends/fc members to do after the fact. For Materia, there seems to be little interest in EO now. It doesnt feel like its long lasting/engaging content.

[CNitsah]

Honestly, from my view, waste of space that needs to be better. Feels like its one of those things that you either do on release, go mad and do solo, or try and hope to try and convince your friends/fc members to do after the fact. For Materia, there seems to be little interest in EO now. It doesnt feel like its long lasting/engaging content.

To me the biggest problem of deep dungeons is the entry condition. pick up only get you access to 30% (50% for PotD) so you have to be in a premade team. Either you get 3 friends to do it with you, at a reasonnable pace, either you have to commit to something that can last for 3, 4, even 5 hours with random people. Because, yeah, random people rarely go "Yeah, let's all come next week to finish that". And if you get bored, or have to leave you penalize everyone.

And the fact that people are limited to 2 saves makes the problem bigger, because random people won't wait for you and delete the save to get space, and people that like deep dungeons probably have their 2 saves taken, which limit even more the number of people you could play with. For a lot of people, it's not even a problem with the content itself, it's that the conditions and commitment to get in are far to high.

It's a content thought to be made with a small group of friends. In a mmo, you mostly play with players you don't know. Something has to be done to make deep dungeons more accessible (I hope that's part of what they talked about when they said they would rework deep dungeons during the 7.0 presentation), because as it is now, it isn't.

[Aravell]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I don't think EO is worthwhile at all. It feels to me like another 100 floors of PotD. HoH at least innovated upon the formula with magicite and big rooms, EO is basically just higher-leveled PotD. It kind of feels like they were pressured to add another Deep Dungeon, so they just rushed one out with minimal innovation, doesn't feel like any passion went into it.

[ElysiumDragon]

Question for people mostly related to the topic

A lot of people point to the other big thing EW added besides C/V is EO, do you feel like EO was a worthwhile addition that made EW better or just kinda a waste of space because I don’t really have a good pulse on the community’s perception of EO

I personally think that if their idea of new deep is just reskinning the old ones at the current level cap it isn’t really worth it, I know I talk about field content a lot but it’s my favourite content so I know the most about it. I think it’s hard to deny that field content has a smooth progression over the years from diadem 1.0 to diadem 2.0 to eureka to Bozja (I know some of the Bozjan Changes were unpopular with some of the eureka crowd but I think overall most agree it was an improvement). I don’t feel any progression on deep dungeons, if EO capped at level 60 I’d probably just go “I haven’t seen this floor set from POTD before”, I guess you could say that every dungeon is fundamentally the same but when it comes to optional endgame grind content are deep dungeons really doing anything

As a Deep Dungeon Enjoyer, Eureka Orthos is decent enough with some new tricks and novelties to make things interesting. The main problem I've heard about is power scaling, as mobs supposedly ended up as HP sponges, which made solo runs tedious.