Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Saidosha]

I feel like the MMO genre as a whole is just not in a good spot. it's like all the devs in the industry attended a seminar where they were given the same advice on how to make their game. The problems in 14 can pretty much be a copy pasta of a lot of different MMOS. For example in ESO the forums there are also on fire, we have a lot of threads saying that overland is pointless, they think devs are ignoring veterans and are trying to appeal to new players who don't really like MMOs or multiplayer games. They find that it takes too long to get story content. They think that classes are too homogenised but somehow have unacceptable dps gaps between them, they say that raids (well ESO only gets one raid per expansion) have gone stale and are too predictable. It's wild to be playing two different MMOs and have both of them be unsatisfying in the same way at the same time.

This is the inevitable result of appealing to tradition, the genre rigidity that follows, and a mix of some chasing a dragon they'll never catch again because their first game, and all those related firsts, has come and gone. And yes, even if gripes between games are similar, proposed player solutions eerily sound similar as well, even if implemented and proven to fail elsewhere.

My personal hot take? You can't have a solid MMO without a solid single-player RPG behind it. This notion is inevitably lost to the idealism of what an MMO could be when human behavior inevitably ruins that. Let's be real, we're not queuing up to stuff hoping to find our next best friend in an instance. We want capable bodies to get in and out as quickly as possible. Especially when it's our nth time doing whatever. This is no different than Trusts even if SE went out of their way to make them perform worse than players to coax people to keep queuing. In the end, XIV is kinda-sorta getting it, but in doing so this late in the game's life, you obviously have people resisting it out of that aforementioned appeal to tradition or a sense of how they experienced content would be exactly how someone else would.

MMOs can actually be a hell of a lot more than they currently are, but all the tribalism that goes on pretty much guarantees we'll never see it.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I feel like the MMO genre as a whole is just not in a good spot. it's like all the devs in the industry attended a seminar where they were given the same advice on how to make their game. The problems in 14 can pretty much be a copy pasta of a lot of different MMOS. For example in ESO the forums there are also on fire, we have a lot of threads saying that overland is pointless, they think devs are ignoring veterans and are trying to appeal to new players who don't really like MMOs or multiplayer games. They find that it takes too long to get story content. They think that classes are too homogenised but somehow have unacceptable dps gaps between them, they say that raids (well ESO only gets one raid per expansion) have gone stale and are too predictable. It's wild to be playing two different MMOs and have both of them be unsatisfying in the same way at the same time.

While this is true, ESO's faults are like the ones talked about here, only way worse.

ESO Cash Shop: Tons and tons of Cash-Shop only items, most of which are NEVER available for free in game. Lots of them are in RNG Loot Boxes of all things, which we don't have here. Houses can cost over $100 USD, and are Cash Shop only. Some items are packaged in Loot Box bundles for $80 USD. If you think FFXIV cash shop is bad, look there.

ESO Difficulty: Most of the game is completely braindead. Overland is so easy 90% of content it's literally impossible to die, for some people even while entirely AFK in battle with overland mobs.

ESO Content Drought: They released a roadmap for 2023 where they cut content releases in half from prior years, removing some content releases entirely and spreading out what used to come in the expansion to another quarter. This quarter is no content at all, instead supposedly focused on "bug fixes" and "quality of life". Their playerbase dropped notably since.

ESO Story Writing: Constantly criticized for how terrible and predictable it is, and how the main characters are written as idiots who can't remember what they were just told in the very same conversation.

ESO Combat Design: Constantly making balance changes that are so severe, people quit the game.

Really ESO's issues are way worse than XIV's, which is why I left ESO and play this. I'm not saying XIV is without issue, and that it's a good thing that content releases are now slower. Getting content on a reduced production schedule can never be viewed as a positive thing - and I have no way of spinning a similar/slightly less amoutn of content on an extended schedule. But after seeing how awful it can be in other games the issues here are trite in comparison.

[Jojoya]

..are we forgetting there will be more than one fanfest? We havent even seen the entire trailer yet. So again, we dont have the full picture yet.

We do have the full picture for Endwalker. YoshiP already told us that 6.5 will wrap up the current MSQ story arc and 6.55 MSQ will be the lead in to Dawntrail.

I'm confused why you think there's going to be a 6.6 or what it would even include if there was going to be one considering Pandaemonium is complete and the final chapter of Myths of the Realm will be in 6.5. We should also be getting the ending to Tataru's Grand Endeavor in 6.5, with the finale to Hildibrand and the relics weapons in 6.55 along with the first Allied Tribal quest since Stormblood. We'll get a 6.58 where they increase the Comedy limit to 900 per week and make some changes to Pandaemonium loot restrictions.

What's missing that a 6.6 would be needed, or even worthwhile releasing?

[Nebelheim]

We do have the full picture for Endwalker. YoshiP already told us that 6.5 will wrap up the current MSQ story arc and 6.55 MSQ will be the lead in to Dawntrail.

I'm confused why you think there's going to be a 6.6 or what it would even include if there was going to be one considering Pandaemonium is complete and the final chapter of Myths of the Realm will be in 6.5. We should also be getting the ending to Tataru's Grand Endeavor in 6.5, with the finale to Hildibrand and the relics weapons in 6.55 along with the first Allied Tribal quest since Stormblood. We'll get a 6.58 where they increase the Comedy limit to 900 per week and make some changes to Pandaemonium loot restrictions.

What's missing that a 6.6 would be needed, or even worthwhile releasing?

At this point it doesn't seem worth arguing with them because there dead set on us getting a patch 6.6. Multiple people have explained to them the same things but they want to argue we will get an additional patch. I pretty much gave up arguing with them because apparently me and many others are wrong and haven't provided enough evidence of us not getting a 6.6 and don't want to admit there wrong. There arguing for the sake of arguing about getting 6.6 and how we have to wait and see and when we point out there wrong they want us to provide proof on why there wrong while not providing and evidence or proof of a 6.6 coming.

[CStrife912]

.....

Dont get me started on ESO....I love elder scrolls as an IP, I love the world...Morrowind was just so damn good (granted stupidly dated combat) the classes are rubbish and barebone and people think 14s are....your right about combat balance but then even gear gets balanced with all their perks which can make a set you grinded for completely redundant or if you want certain gear it will only drop from certain dungeons which some which are best in slot are behind paywall dungeon packs. PVP is a mess of lag and that side of the community got shafted for many years and only now are getting it addressed server lag wise. Content releases are priced the same as say 14 and offer way less content when it comes to landmass, dungeons, items or gear etc etc.... then like you say cash shop, housing and my god the guild bank/vendor system and browsing for stuff on npc vendors jesus lord....then you have eso plus which is mandatory for crafter gatherers....ok anyway you got me started.

14 has a fair few issues and sadly the genre and competition haven't had anyone compete...new world has a new expansion which is absolute barebones for a borderline low amount of players...14 and wow are definitely getting complacent in different ways and unfortunately I cant see it changing anytime soon because they have no real reason to change. Their numbers likely show that more people are probably playing and enjoying then on here voicing concern etc because most wouldn't even do that, they'd have left.

[Elissar]

Really ESO's issues are way worse than XIV's, which is why I left ESO and play this. I'm not saying XIV is without issue, and that it's a good thing that content releases are now slower.

Exactly my thoughts. The Morrowind atmosphere is meh, OST is amazing, political intrigues, immersion, etc...feels like a wonderful RPG experience but not good as MMO.

Buy to play with pay walls everywhere is annoying af, inventory is extremely restrictive to make you pay more.

[vetch]

What's missing that a 6.6 would be needed, or even worthwhile releasing?

Eureka 2.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Saraide]

We do have the full picture for Endwalker. YoshiP already told us that 6.5 will wrap up the current MSQ story arc and 6.55 MSQ will be the lead in to Dawntrail.

I'm confused why you think there's going to be a 6.6 or what it would even include if there was going to be one considering Pandaemonium is complete and the final chapter of Myths of the Realm will be in 6.5. We should also be getting the ending to Tataru's Grand Endeavor in 6.5, with the finale to Hildibrand and the relics weapons in 6.55 along with the first Allied Tribal quest since Stormblood. We'll get a 6.58 where they increase the Comedy limit to 900 per week and make some changes to Pandaemonium loot restrictions.

What's missing that a 6.6 would be needed, or even worthwhile releasing?

3rd Endwalker ultimate is coming in 6.6. (source: I made it up)

[BRVV]

Eureka 2.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Nah bro Spreadsheet Sim... i mean Island Sanctuary up to level 50!

[Renathras]

That’s the worst thing about the current drought, we are ripping each others heads off arguing about the content drought now; we are still between 6.4 and 6.5, the 6.5-7.0 gap is pretty much a flat year, and we already know what the content is gonna be in 6.5 and it isn’t much

Imagine how people will be in April next year with no content for 6 months and no substantial content since Anabeisos/EO launched 18 months ago

Damnit.

I typed up a really long post and now...ugh. Internet ate it.

Let's see...the bullet points:

1) I agree.

2) Unless they pull a lot of stuff out of their arse, the content drought is going to be a content desert.

3) I've done literally (and I do mean literally not figuratively) every side-quest in the game aside from DoH/L relics and a few Job quests for the ones I don't have to 80+.

4) I've also finished relics for every Job I care about (and many I haven't).

5) Even I'm running a little low on things to do - this is normally where I'd fall back on doing the expansion's Exploration Zone...but EW doesn't have one!

6) Island Spreadsheet/Sweatshop isn't fun since I can't craft stuff myself and I don't enjoy being middle management, and Orthos is the worst parts of PotD (damage) and HoH (enemy health sponges) to solo.

7) I've consumed most of the content I enjoy, so running out of stuff to do without new stuff added that's in the vein of the stuff I like to do.

8) My normal end-game, Extremes, decided to be Savages this expansion, which makes PFing them abject misery and not enjoyable at all. So my normal "farm the latest Extreme until mount drop" I've completely let go of this expansion. "Body checks! Body checks EVERYwhere!" I swear, whoever decided ever fight needs bloody body checks needs their head examined.

9) 4.5 series (4.5, 4.55, and 4.57, I think?) will add the new 24 man, new 8 man (possibly two), new dungeon (possibly second one), Hilde quests, and a smattering of maybes (Alliance Tribal quest?)
...but most of that is "one and done" stuff (much as I want to see the new 24 man story and who the last boss/deity is, that's a one-time thing followed by MAYBE an hour a week run since WEEKLY LOCKOUTS EXIST). That means once I finish my tome gear and upgrades (and I do Hunt trains...a lot...so I'll finish them with nuts well before I can with coins), it's going to be really easy to run out of things to do after the 2-5 days (being generous) of total quest/story content across all those lines of MSQ part 1, Twelve, Hilde (which won't even be until 4.55), Tataru, and then MSQ Part 2. After that, it's just grinds, but weekly gated grinds, and even those won't take long. Oh, and I don't think I'll want to grind the Extremes until 7.X because the Extremes this expansion have felt more like Savages and been ABSOLUTE MISERY to try doing in PF where people STILL don't understand how to form a line in the safe column for Gales 2 SOMEhow.

That is, there's a lot of "do once, then you're done" and a few "do once a week to cap" stuff, but nothing to really spend time with, and the other stuff I'd normally do are either played out (Deep Dungeons), broken for midcore folks like me (Extremes), or just outright missing (Exploration Zones). This has been a thing I've been pointing out as an issue for a while, but it's starting to stack up as the other stuff I could do gets consumed (e.g. can only run every sidequest in the game once, really).

And once the Moogle Tome event ends, things like Rival Wings are going to go back to being ghost towns, and Frontlines are horrifically unbalanced, and while I DO sometimes do 24 man ques for fun, there's only so much of "I'm capped on tomes and have no reason to do this, but I'll do it anyway" that's going to happen. Once one has PvP Rank 25 for the season, there's little reason to do any more, and A Ranks still only spawn every 6 hours and S ranks once every 2-3 days, so that content isn't really something you can grind (without a lot of downtime), either, even if server hopping.

.

/sigh

Anyway, don't like being all "doom and gloom". But I do think it's an issue. I DO think that doing things like futureproofing (Duty Support, streamlining old quests, etc) and futurefortifying (graphics update, etc) are good things, but I'm worried they've spent too many dev resources on those things and neglected the present in the process. Stocking up for the future is fine and good, but not if you starve yourself in the present so you don't survive, or are emaciated and long-term damaged, to see it. And I'm not yet sure "filler beach episode" is going to really address that, pull back the people who have drifted away, draw in new people, or address the specific problems.

I do like this dev team and they've earned goodwill, but I do think at some point we need to be able to see what they're planning, and they need to be planning something to address this stuff. Playing too close to the chest may not be the right move here.

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...I think that's a vaguely adequate summary.

But again, I dislike being doom and gloom. I do have concerns about 7-8 months of no new real content to sink our teeth into, though.

You are assuming there wont be a patch in between. I am fairly sure they are well aware of the possible gap. Have a little faith, yeah?

I do hope you're right. But I am mildly concerned since they've not actually said anything to address this. Again, playing things too close to the chest is bad in situations like this (kinda like the DNC "will it be a DPS or a healer??" thing that they seemed to be having a coy fun game about not realizing it really did throw people off and generate a lot of backlash...)

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[Not really interested in the petty nonsense. Edited my post from back a ways to address things, but I don't want to keep the thread going off on tangents, so if people want to keep doing it, they're going to have to keep going back there for "validation" of their doing it.]