What is Dark knight for now that War just does everything better?

[Shurrikhan]

And you’re not seriously telling me that dark knight is substantially more difficult than warrior?

Substantially? That depends on where you draw that line. I'd say noticeably but not significantly.

But as WAR's doing 3% more DPS AND almost 40% more sustain... and yet is not significantly harder than DRK (by nearly any omni-tank's accounts, is easier, to the point WAR outperforms GNB until the 80th+ percentiles for simple ease of performance)... yeah, that seems a balance issue.

The recent WAR buffs were slightly excessive. That seems a very reasonable conclusion.

Also aurora vs equilibrium. Equilibrium heals for just under both charges, but can’t be placed on others.

Oh no... I guess my WAR will just have to stick to the 1600 cure-potency + 400 shield-potency and 10% external mitigation per 25 seconds (1100 more cure+shield potency in exchange for 5% less miti compared to HoC) for keeping others up?

Bw/nf probably shouldn’t have the yellow hp shield tacked on and should go back to being however many% of damage dealt.

Agreed.

[Erinellza]

What is Dark knight for now that War just does everything better?

To look like an edgy emo, I guess.

[DayHealer]

Dark knights, samurais and now reapers are the edgy weeb jobs. If you main those jobs consider touching some grass.

[Zairava]

Incomprehensibly common Dark Knight L to stack onto the pile of Dark Knight L's because they display having absolutely 0 clue what to do with a job whose identity they neutered.

All we can really do is hope for 7.0, although there is hardly, if any, hope left in me. Maybe one day us DRK's can be more than just a WAR with a busier burst with situationally stronger defensives, because at this point that would feel like living the dream.

[Jeeqbit]

DRK's mitigation is definitely better, because in a situation of soloing things that aren't meant to be done solo, the mitigation can achieve things the other tanks struggle with. But this comes at the cost of self-healing. The shield makes up for that a lot, but that one moment when it can't makes it the drawback. The last time I was doing that, DRK didn't have the heals on Living Dead, so it's in a better place already.

But this is one of the few unique differences about the tanks that remains. I'd rather not petition SE to homogenize DRK to be full of self-heals and therefore the same as the other tanks.

[Vyrerus]

I read this thread and all that comes to mind is that this is just the way things were with DRK first came out.

When DRK first came out in HW, it had really good DPS, even while in tank stance (because it could have its DPS stance and Tank stance on simultaneously, which was something neither WAR or PLD could do back then(well WAR could with Unchained for a CD's worth of time)).

This pretty much made DRK replace PLD for nearly the entirety of Heavensward, because it was better at everything PLD could do with the exception of its invuln and lacking Clemency (though back then, Clemency was a 3 second cast that ate half your entire MP and it could also be interrupted).

But compared to WAR, WAR had self sustain, total damage down from Storm's Path inflicted on the monster, slashing debuff from Storm's Eye and ATK+20% from Maim. Also, due to WAR's tank stance not being actual mitigation, this meant it could ride its DPS stance full time without taking any higher damage anyway, allowing it to do the most damage while also being able to quickly swap back to its tank stance for self sustain, and then swap back to DPS to continue out DPSing both of the other tanks.

And HW DRK relied on about 7 or 8 oGCDs constantly, in addition to three separate melee combos, all while having to manage your MP so your DPS stance didn't wear off ever. While WAR had like 2 oGCDs, and a lot lower APM with no MP to manage at all, with stance swapping with lower cooldowns only really having to manage its Wrath/Abandon stacks vs. its Berserk and Internal Release(the PGL sub class skill) timers.

It's not really surprising then, if DRK didn't beat WAR at its inception that it wouldn't beat it most of the time. In fact, over the course of the history of the game, it's only been the odd times where they were willing to curb WAR's power where DRK pulled ahead.

Of course, unlike back then, the game is largely in a spot where you can play whatever you want without really holding your group back in most situations. You only truly beat the meta once you stop caring about it, and place your personal enjoyment above the numbers rat race. Not saying you shouldn't play to the best of your abilities, just saying that the strongest jobs need specific context in order for their advantages to truly matter.

[Lieri]

That is why you play what you enjoy and we should make sure to let the devs know if certain job is extremely underperforming.

Some people like DRK aesthetic and gameplay, some people like WAR, GNB or PLD. I like WAR and even if it's damage was so bad that PF groups locked WAR out of P8S I didn't play other tank. I stopped playing, didnt extend my sub and came back a month later to finish the tier. I dont want to be forced to play jobs I dont enjoy and you should do the same.

If anything DRK is still very good. You dont know the pain of WAR and PLD during the first 2 weeks of Abyssos Savage release. People looked down on you even if you did mechanics properly. So this is a nothing story. Its not a gacha game where one character is supossed to be Ultra Rare and be the best. You dont have to play the best classes to clear contents.

[Zairava]

That is why you play what you enjoy and we should make sure to let the devs know if certain job is extremely underperforming.

Some people like DRK aesthetic and gameplay, some people like WAR, GNB or PLD. I like WAR and even if it's damage was so bad that PF groups locked WAR out of P8S I didn't play other tank. I stopped playing, didnt extend my sub and came back a month later to finish the tier. I dont want to be forced to play jobs I dont enjoy and you should do the same.

If anything DRK is still very good. You dont know the pain of WAR and PLD during the first 2 weeks of Abyssos Savage release. People looked down on you even if you did mechanics properly. So this is a nothing story. Its not a gacha game where one character is supossed to be Ultra Rare and be the best. You dont have to play the best classes to clear contents.

Half of Dark Knight's kit and mechanics got erased over the years and replaced with effectively nothing, unless you think several hollow dps ogcd's somehow make up for that. I'm going to put my voice on here whether it has high dps or not. Its dps is very good, no one is disputing that. It's offensively designed horrendously and feels like we're playing a barebones version outside of our burst windows. We're now in a situation where Warrior can (to my knowledge thus far) not only outdps Dark Knight up to a higher percentile in a few of the high end fights, but ALSO far better party support at minimum expense to themselves. That makes bringing DRK a "worse option" in those encounters because the entire reason why it was even brought in the first place was because it did substantially higher damage.

And no, magic cooldowns are not, unfortunately, a good counter-argument when mentioning the previous tier. If warrior brought more dps to the table DRK would have been the one on the bench, Dark Mind and TBN's shield be damned. People should play the jobs they find fun, I agree, but that isn't the mindset of the ultra-sweaty parsers, which, ironically, is where some people's eyes who didn't find the flaws with the job to begin with really start seeing them.

I say this all as someone who still stubbornly plays the job solely because I find bursting with it more fun than Warrior.

[RyuDragnier]

And no, magic cooldowns are not, unfortunately, a good counter-argument when mentioning the previous tier. If warrior brought more dps to the table DRK would have been the one on the bench, Dark Mind and TBN's shield be damned. People should play the jobs they find fun, I agree, but that isn't the mindset of the ultra-sweaty parsers, which, ironically, is where some people's eyes who didn't find the flaws with the job to begin with really start seeing them.

To add to this, there's a few moves in P10S and P11S that are physicals and cannot be mitigated by a DRK's Dark Mind or Dark Missionary, limiting their usefulness. While WAR/PLD can easily mitigate them, DRK cannot, making it a weaker pick this tier as well. Less damage and less usable mitigation for the tier can easily break DRK's viability here.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

Dark knights, samurais and now reapers are the edgy weeb jobs. If you main those jobs consider touching some grass.

You say that, as you pray to the Blood Lily.