Can we get incentives to be good people? I see this turning into FFXI

[Lux_Rayna]

You're joking, right? I hope you don't sincerely think that all doctors are in the profession because they want to help people.

Naivety is a precious thing!! We can't all end up cynical bastards lol...let him keep his dream!

[Peptaru]

If you do a good deed juts for the reward.... don't you cease to be a good person for doing it? You're just doin it for self-gain.

[Lux_Rayna]

If you do a good deed juts for the reward.... don't you cease to be a good person for doing it? You're just doin it for self-gain.

So the topic should be titled: "Can we have incentives to pretend we are at least good people?"

[Majidah]

I could have said "Could we get incentives?" but people would think I was asking for something stupidly easy and feel a little uncomfortable about the real thing I"m asking, which is that we get an incentive to be good people.

I was born selfish but also social, like most people.

I think there's one type of person in this world that is truly unselfish, the type of person that works in the medical profession. If you do, props to you because you actually care enough about other people to devote all of your time to it.

For the rest of us, let me just recount some stories from FFXI:

CoP (Airship) (Fight) (Do You Need It?) (Help me out!)

Since I started FFXI @ TOAU I shouted this for 2 years and out of that 2 years I got to attempt the fight about 5 different times before people quit from losing it. When I finally did complete it, it was only because a player was eager to measure his e-peen with the new level cap of 80 or 85. In other words, I was stuck on progression for years and "quit" the game several times thanks to that system.

(Really time-consuming mission that I already did and will probably wipe at for hours because these new people don't know how to do it, and for which there is absolutely no reward for me) (Help me out!)

I shouted about a CoP mission but I have a feeling this is how my shout appeared on their screen.

(Job AF Quest that I already did 3 times for close friends, which I have absolutely no motivation to do and is now being shouted by a stranger) (Help me out!)

(Task that requires me to spend 45 minutes traveling and waiting on other people to show, spend my gil to get there, receive a durability penalty for wiping with the group until they learn the fight, which they may never be skilled enough to learn, and having to use my own gil and dark matter to repair) (Can I have it?) (Help me out!) 1/8

Okay I've made my point. For a certain amount of time after new content is released, like Zilart, CoP, TOAU, AF quests, etc, people are in a race to do it right away and it's easy to swim downstream. After a while the current dries up and all that's left is a few stragglers. I was a straggler in FFXI because I started late, and I'm turning into a jaded douche in FFXIV already because I started early.

What's the incentive to help stragglers in this game? Where is the incentive for me to put my hard earned gil, time, experience, and leadership forth to some straggler or noob when I'm having a consuming enough time using my play time toward progression with drop rates that are intentionally low? Let me spell it out for you. I'm never going to help anyone unless it's a close friend or I like their name or something random, they seem extra nice, or I'm really bored (why would I be logged in then?). And let's not kid ourselves. That's what's been going on in FFXI for 8 years or more. No case study needed.

This was one of the biggest flaws in FFXI and it's looks like no one's noticed that it's going to lock people out of FFXIV. Yes, I'm talking purely about the job quests. There are people that already have to wait an agonizingly long time to do them and they've only been out for a couple weeks. It's going to get much worse as time goes on.

Fortunately, I don't come to ask questions but also to present answers.

Not to get too intellectual about it, but games like WoW don't have this problem since the only group-progression requirements are obsolete through planning with every new patch. Old group content is experienced primarily through the Achievement system in that game, and guess what? Massive amounts of people go through that old content just for the "badge". I really like FFXI's / FFXIV's adventurous group-restricted content. I think it's a great strength for the game to have it, but a great weakness also because it alienates too many customers and forces them to quit the game.

My answer is simple. There should be a reward system that automatically keeps track of completed quest objectives, done in a full group, and the only condition is that someone in the group got the win for the first time. In that condition, a point is created which can be redeemed for something valuable. That's it. One simple change that will turn all of the Selfish Bastards of Eorzea into Kind Caring Doctors With Good Bedside Manner.

You're welcome dev team. If you want me to get more specific I'll be glad to.

Aw, who am I kidding they don't even read the English forum.

Dude. This comes from heart...

I did not read your entire post. Its way too long. Doesn't get to the point.

However I did read this:

There should be a reward system that automatically keeps track of completed quest objectives, done in a full group, and the only condition is that someone in the group got the win for the first time. In that condition, a point is created which can be redeemed for something valuable. That's it. One simple change that will turn all of the Selfish Bastards of Eorzea into Kind Caring Doctors With Good Bedside Manner.

And I think its a great idea. I suggest deleting the rest of the post and keeping something of that size, if not just that paragraph.

[Dragon]

If you do a good deed juts for the reward.... don't you cease to be a good person for doing it? You're just doin it for self-gain.

Well though I disagree with what the OP wants, how is anyone a "good person" under this definition to begin with? Nothing is done completely through selfless means, just that some people are better at hiding their selfish intentions.

[Mihana]

Very nice. At first I thought it was just a complaint thread and was about to respond with something but when I got to the end I actually realized your point. When you lag behind it's harder to get stuff done. I've even seen it in an LS I'm in. Somebody will go "Can I get help for x?" and if I'm free I'll just offer and go along. Meanwhile others stay silent and won't even respond. A few do, but numerous times their requests for help go unanswered. Having some sort of reward system to encourage people to redo content isn't a bad idea at all. They added that feature in for Grand Company seals and drops from dungeons so that was a good step in the right direction. Now if they'll only do it for the rest.

[Peptaru]

I help people who are shouting randomly just to help them. I've been there in a few games and its a terrible place to be. If you're talking about things like "I help them to derive a sense of satisfaction because I feel I've done something good", then I'm prone to believe you're just trying to provoke people by splitting hairs about selfish intentions.

[Neptune]

That's why it's so important to find a nice Linkshell in FFXIV.
They will help you out when you can't find enough players for your stuff, help you with strategies, etc.

Then I hope you don't end up in one of my linkshells. There are hundreds of people in my linkshells, most of whom I've never played with or done 1 run with and never talked to. They are no different than people shouting in the streets of Ul'Dah. If I get to know someone in LS it is more likely that I'll help them just to have fun, if I like their personality, but the idea of some linkshell "loyal" to its members is a very scarce thing in this community. In the end the people at the top are only interested in progression, and if they're not interested in progression, it's unlikely that they have the skill to really help, although it might be enough to get you past the AF quests.

I like the idea of the kind of linkshells you're talking about but just the fact that you bring it up shows your uncertainty about the subject. You are well aware of the reality of playing this game, and it's unkind to suggest to new people that they "find" a "good" linkshell because they may never find a good one, and they'll be out on the streets of Ul'Dah like a bunch of dog damned urchins shouting for help.

Or there could be a reward system.

If you do a good deed juts for the reward.... don't you cease to be a good person for doing it? You're just doin it for self-gain.

Yes it is purely for self-gain. Does it make you a good person in the eyes of God? Who could say? But who cares, because in the eyes of the Almighty Noob you are as good as a saint, and that's what I mean by "good person". A good person from the straggler's perspective.

[Enfarious]

Then I hope you don't end up in one of my linkshells. There are hundreds of people in my linkshells, most of whom I've never played with or done 1 run with and never talked to. They are no different than people shouting in the streets of Ul'Dah....

There are more often than not EGLSs that are relatively small. I've done the 100+ person thing, typically a purely social LS, it's really just about as useful as you said since you do only know 10ish that're on around the same times as you. But a "good" EGLS will typically help when you ask, and of course they also tend to have planned events and things to continue peoples progression. Of course you won't get an EGLS w/o being ready for EG content and being capable of doing it well.

[Andrien]

OT.
This is a great idea to get people up and about, and motivated to help others, that includes players from different LS from your own. It also gives players a goal to look out for in the future. If SE implement this right only good can come out from this.

Most people don't want to waste time doing anything for nothing you know.