The truth is we need a remastered XI or a follow up

[Boblawblah]

Imagine playing an MMO and not wanting it to be social

And yet here we are, and from most accounts, I'm enjoying the game more than a lot of the more old school 'mmos are for making friends!' types. Almost makes you wonder if mmos and the people that play them have changed over time.

[Blossoming]

Imagine gatekeeping an MMO.



I am social, with my friends. I made half in my second coil static, and the rest are from my current static from eden. I spend my free time chatting with them. I'm not a social butterfly, I'd much rather be in a quiet place reading than at a party or public event.



Doesn't mean I can't enjoy mmos.

Where did I say anything about gatekeeping? What? Wonderful for you that you have a small group, that’s totally your right but it can also be true some people prefer an MMO to have more social elements to it.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Where did I say anything about gatekeeping? What? Wonderful for you that you have a small group, that’s totally your right but it can also be true some people prefer an MMO to have more social elements to it.

The implication that you must be social to play mmos.



Also, the game provides opportunity to be social. You just need to make the effort. It's not like older mmos where you were forced to be social or the game was inaccessible. Also, you had tons of downtime in XI to chat, as autoattacking or sitting waiting for mobs was most of the experience. Imagine xivs battle system in XI, much less chance to talk.





They are different games, Thankfully.

[Ransu]

I do, I distinctly remember striking up conversations with other people since we were just chilling. Or people fishing on the side of the ship. I even remember missing the ship, and the feeling of adrenaline and subsequent disappointment when I tried to make it and it left me lmao. It sucked but I remember it. I remember sea monks killing hapless people. I remember that occasionally pirates would hijack the ship.

You know what I don't remember? Any events that transpired while getting to any city in Eorzea. Ever. And I'm not talking about the quest, I'm talking about the physical journey that it took to get anywhere. Heck, this is even why fetch quests absolutely blow in XIV.

There's some fetch quests in XI where you have to go in super deep into absolutely infested places with nothing but horrors inside them waiting to kill you. And navigating that and coming out alive was insane.

That same quest in XIV I would fly in, mobs would aggro me, I would straight up ignore them or blast them to pieces and run out in less than 30 seconds. In fact, Mobs are such a joke I normally time the auto attacks to see if I can get the object from the ground in between them before I get interrupted because I respect them so little they are not even worth acknowledging.

You try doing the same to a banshee in XI and see how that goes.

Can we maybe agree that being an untouchable, unkillable god in the world ruins any game? Because I feel like that in XIV all the time, and its boring. This mostly overworld stuff yes I raid and have my face blown off regularly but only in "SE approved instances" because the rest of the world can't have any danger. Everyone's safety is SE's priority. In a game about adventure and said dangers >.>

I'm all for overworld stuff being more difficult. That said, they tried that in HW and a lot of people hated it, which is probably why the non-raid stuff is as easy as it is today. I just don't like time wasters, especially now a days, and the airships in XI were massive time wasters. Maybe if I was still a kid I wouldn't care, but I have no interest in pointlessly waiting around like that.

[Hurlstone]

And yet here we are, and from most accounts, I'm enjoying the game more than a lot of the more old school 'mmos are for making friends!' types. Almost makes you wonder if mmos and the people that play them have changed over time.

Exactly. How people have played MMOs has changed so much in the last two decades that I am sure a game like FFXI (In its original, no-Trust form) would not be successful nowadays. Modern games have had to accommodate for the fact that many players enjoy solo content, or at least content that does not require 6 people every time to engage with. As someone who is fine with matchmade groups but enjoys solo content for the most part, I honestly much prefer MMOs now over then. You still have FC’s and Party Finder, and but I enjoy how much I can do in my own time. Its why I love ESO too. There is still a market for more ‘social’ games sure, as seen by FFXI, LOTRO, etc still existing with adjustments and there should be ways to play for evey type of player. I just think such games are more in the past, for good or bad, and I doubt returning to those times is what will ‘save’ MMOs.

[Shougun]

I do think having a longer travel option would be nice (not just chocobo porters), but yes, the option for instant travel is needed. Gamers just aren't the same as back in 2000. People aren't going to put up with a game that forces them to wait 5 - 10 minutes for something to show up and then another 15 - 20 minutes to travel. When people log in they want to play immediately. The very off chance they find a new friend while waiting those 30 minutes just isn't worth it for most players now.

Also, it's funny you mention GW2, if you watch how people use mounts, almost everyone simply uses the mounts that allow them to bypass content, whether it's the griffon or skyscale. Devs can make all the systems they want, but if players aren't using the systems, that says something.

I mean the players do use the system though, the mounts are the system in gw2. Flying is literally a game content in gw2, and imo a fun one- with a pretty neat skill ceiling to be honest. But the other mounts in specific content still have value too. The game also examples transportation progression as getting that mount you mention is a relic in and of its own.

Duration is important though I agree, and activity. 10 or so minutes isn't that long if there is other things to do, like your first journey had a bunch of NPCs to talk to, exploring the ship, pirates, and little games, etc. And being cognizant of content that needs repeated, which is why I said progression of transportation... if it took 20 minutes to get anywhere that'd be awful for most people. Say Ghost of Tsushima where after a while they unlocked fast travel, but they made movement so fluid and enjoyable with a map packed enough that it was pretty common to see people not use the system like an aethernet to go for close location to close... just to move much farther distances.

Or like if there was a 2 minute ride and a chance of pirates to attack, or events that lead up to it that were a bit trackable (but seemingly random for a new player), then the ship may take 10 more minutes as a big fight breaks out but players could run away via life rafts and thus not have to wait it out if they didn't feel like it.

An example of seemingly random but not was the abomination quest line in WoW human area, if you were just hanging about it was like "WHAT IS HAPPENING?!" but technically it's knowable so veterans are able to experience it as needed. Meta event if we were comparing to GW2.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'm all for overworld stuff being more difficult. That said, they tried that in HW and a lot of people hated it, which is probably why the non-raid stuff is as easy as it is today. I just don't like time wasters, especially now a days, and the airships in XI were massive time wasters. Maybe if I was still a kid I wouldn't care, but I have no interest in pointlessly waiting around like that.

I would prefer for it to at least be an option. We have the never used airship system in the game. Why not turn it into a small instance zone where players can chill, play some triple triad and do some small events before you reach your destination. Kinda like FFXII's airships.

[TaleraRistain]

There was very much a WoW vs. XI thing back in the day. And you best run if you dared to call your character a toon, or your LS a guild, or used other WoWisms.

Which was always silly to me because neither of those terms came from WoW. We were using them back in EverQuest and they were old even then.

[Renathras]

For better or worse, the biggest problem/asset of FFXI is its community. Tried to get into it a couple years ago thinking "Old School MMO! So I can really get social, talk with people in parties, level with folks, etc etc." So what was the game like? "Get Trusts. Level up. Get at least some of the good end-game gear. THEN you can join our parties." And I was like "If I want to play an MMO where I solo level and only do end-game content with people, I already have FFXIV for that..."

I actually like old school games. I tried whatever one of the more recent private servers for FFXI was for a couple of days and actually enjoyed THAT experience. Being a healer that mainly HEALS people, how avant-garde! I actually ENJOYED it...
...but I also realize it's a private server, and I largely didn't stick with it because of that. I kind of have never really trusted private servers, as you're at the whims of the people running it, the owning company not filing a cease and desist, and so on. I DID like how the install was so much better (seriously, how is PlayOnline still a thing in 2023??) and even controller support being natively active (OMG YES!), and wish the actual game/company would officially buy the project from those people and run it as an official thing.

I think that there are a lot of people hungry for an old school MMO like that. Large portions of Ashes of Creations' enthusiasts are, and Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen's entire community is. While there aren't 13+ million like at WoW's height, you could easily get 500k to 2M people for a project like that if someone does it well.

The problem with current FFXI is it isn't that. It's got that as a baseline, but with tons of changes over the years (some good, some bad) that have turned it into a Trust based leveling system. It's a solo-focused MMO (like FFXIV) built in an old school social MMO world and foundation...and that just doesn't work. It needs to pick a lane. If it picked the old school lane with a modern graphics engine and control scheme, I think that WOULD be pretty popular. But the current "old school look/new school mechanics and play" is just "play a modern MMO with a 20 year old graphics engine", which is just stupid. I'd play a 20 year old MMO with a 20 year old graphics engine, or a modern MMO with a modern graphics engine, or even a 20 year old MMO with a modern graphics engine, but I'm not going to play a modern MMO with modern seeming community but a 20 year old engine and mechanics. That's just stupid.

[Skivvy]

Which was always silly to me because neither of those terms came from WoW. We were using them back in EverQuest and they were old even then.

lol, I had learned about the origin years later, but at least in my experience, WoW was getting the blame in XI. WoW will forever be the "big, bad!" when it comes to being a rival it seems. :x