AI Bots?

[hunkygladiator]

I wonder how Square will be handling the advent of AI bots that outplay players? Not tomorrow of course, but the time is coming when 'rent-an-ai' will be available; or worse, for sale. Neil Tyson put it well in a recent commentary with words to the effect that soon AI will be able to duplicate any photograph, any audible sounds including human voices, any motion pictures, and make short shrift of most passwords in seconds. He said it portends the death of the Internet. So then, to be allowed to play, we have to not be AI. Given that, how do we prove we aren't perfect, against a creation that is perfect at proving it is not perfect?

Shooter

It depends on what you mean by "AI bots".

AI in general, as in artificial intelligence? It's already a thing. Or else what would you call the existing bots...? Some of them do rotations better than 99% of players.

AI as in specifically machine-learning based ones?

1. There is no money to be made making ML/DL based bots since the marginal benefit is extremely low (see the point about bots already doing very well).

2. Exactly how are you going to get the training set? It seems prohibitively costly to get a sufficiently large training set for playing one particular video game compared to just scraping Reddit.

3. How are you going to update the bot for new content? Do you repeat part 2 every single time?

AI bots already exist in Ultimate raiding.

There was a chinese group that made a youtube video a while back that showed their AI bots completing DSR

That video is fake. What isn't fake however is the existence of rotation bots that can do entire rotations for you. There are a lot of fake videos of "cheats" or "bots" in raiding out there, though I'm seriously unsure what is the point of making those fake videos.

Tbf even the Google CEO said he cant explain how AI works, and it is an experiment they unleashed into the world without really knowing what it does, while the ethics team got fired or left/reduced. I can understand why some states will put restrictions, especially when it will destroy a lot of jobs.

But yeah I dont think OP understands how AI usually gets trained and how difficult it would be for a game like this. This isnt even near or midterm future

Why would the Google CEO know how DL models work? It isn't his job and he's not trained in it. And all this brouhaha over AI being a black box is as inane as saying that 358982351 * 8234609182^3527 is a black box. It's literally just a lot of chained regressions exploiting generalizations of Stone-Weierstrass. If someone wants to put in the effort they can examine the weights at every layer.

Furthermore, there's already a lot of research and tools to explain AI models. e.g.: https://github.com/slundberg/shap

The only reason AI will upend society is not because governments ignore the threat but because they literally don't understand it and will therefore likely institute horrible policies.

[Saraide]

That video is fake. What isn't fake however is the existence of rotation bots that can do entire rotations for you. There are a lot of fake videos of "cheats" or "bots" in raiding out there, though I'm seriously unsure what is the point of making those fake videos.

Really? You of all people dont see the point of riling people up with fake/bait posts?

[UkcsAlias]

That video is fake. What isn't fake however is the existence of rotation bots that can do entire rotations for you. There are a lot of fake videos of "cheats" or "bots" in raiding out there, though I'm seriously unsure what is the point of making those fake videos.

TAS speedrunning is a thing (and bigger than some people realise). And even within that community, there is competition in 'who is first', and 'who is the fastest'. And this promotes fake videos, and thats most likely not even the main reason here. The reason they make such videos is because there are no consequences for doing so. Even if you get called out, the money from the video is already made.

Technicaly this game can be easily TAS'd. All mechanics are static and screen readable (sure, memory reading can make things easier, but certain tas categories disallow this). But because of the competition, the code to do this is often kept private. And if the TAS-er has some dignity, he keeps it private to avoid cheaters obtaining these tools.

Its only that FF isnt popular enough for this (if you make it for this game, why not just do that in wow? With private code detection isnt that easy to perform for devs anyway). Otherwise they would already have done that considering bot detection in this game is horrible enough.

But why take such effort if a cheap video already generates the money?

[hunkygladiator]

TAS speedrunning is a thing (and bigger than some people realise). And even within that community, there is competition in 'who is first', and 'who is the fastest'. And this promotes fake videos, and thats most likely not even the main reason here. The reason they make such videos is because there are no consequences for doing so. Even if you get called out, the money from the video is already made.

Technicaly this game can be easily TAS'd. All mechanics are static and screen readable (sure, memory reading can make things easier, but certain tas categories disallow this). But because of the competition, the code to do this is often kept private. And if the TAS-er has some dignity, he keeps it private to avoid cheaters obtaining these tools.

Its only that FF isnt popular enough for this (if you make it for this game, why not just do that in wow? With private code detection isnt that easy to perform for devs anyway). Otherwise they would already have done that considering bot detection in this game is horrible enough.

But why take such effort if a cheap video already generates the money?

IDK, I just don't see how they're making the money. These videos get like 10k views on youtube which is like $1.