Do people not care enough or does the game do a bad job at teaching?

[WantlessYoYo]

(Cross posting this from Reddit)
This will prolly look more like a TFDF post rather than a debate one but will try my best to lead it the other way


For the past few months since i became a mentor i've been doing said roulette, with the number being at 850 at the moment, and with it i've seen pretty much all cases, with the last one happening a moment ago being the one who made me wonder.

This was a SAM, tower of Zot, multiple jobs at 90 already who basically didn't knew anything about their Iajutsu, noticed when pulls were taking longer than normal and only saw 1 of the buffs on their chars and never a Tenka Goken(SAM AOE Iajutsu) and later on a midare

Then i proceed to take like 5 minutes explaining everything to said person, lucky enough the other 2 on the party didn't bother

My first train of thought was, of course, "C'mon man people don't bother to even look a guide", along the multiple Cure 1 healers and other things that should be considered basics at higher dungeon levels

But then after said dungeon i thought as well and as dumb as it sounds, does the SAM quest ever requires you to do said skill even once?

We're talking about in order to clear the whole thing a person could just smash 2 keyslike this one was doing and still make it through

Main questions i want to ask and kinda of a TLDR

-Main one of the post, do you think is a people problem for not caring enough or from the game for not being more exigent on content?

-As a bonus and again maybe will be more of a TFDF thing, tell me if you've encountered a similar experience

[Wyssahtyn]

yes

tenchar

[Renalt]

Sadly all the MSQ stuff is so easy it doesn't require you to do anything but bare minimum. There is no reason to get good if even your worst is enough to some people.

[VeyaAkemi]

-Main one of the post, do you think is a people problem for not caring enough or from the game for not being more exigent on content?

100% the former, a lot of people will act outright insulted if you imply they aren't playing correctly by trying to give any advice, claim it's "just a different playstyle", this is while dealing less damage than the Healer, you could claim that if the game was more demanding, they would simply be forced to get better... but that's a different argument.

[Chie_M]

People don't even read their tooltips.

[Oizen]

[Shougun]

I think if you want to cater to the audience as large as FFXIV you'll have to have content akin to MSQ as it is OR utilize systems wildly different than we currently have; otherwise, you cannot reach as large of an audience at least as sustainably. Therefore it is as it is... honestly I think expecting people to look at guides, at all, is above and beyond their duty if it is ever a type of MSQ content- for any reason. I just can't fathom that being a reasonable request "you shouldn't be here unless you read Tim's Fantabulous Guide To Owning Cid-lolipop-olis *kicked*". Though I wouldn't dare set foot in savage content without reading a guide first (did it actively long ago, then decided it just wasn't worth the time and stressed me out more than made me enjoy the game, particularly because I did it mostly in PUGs and got sick of one person wasting the entire parties, and mostly my, time, but that also was due to my inconsistent schedule- now I don't even bother until it's unsync-able.. and yet I still look up a guide.. XD lol).

Definitely one of the things I felt Elden Ring did horribly was you basically needed a guide to do any quest, even though I like the esoteric like delivery of story... just give me a dang journal thank you >.<.

I would say the game doesn't do a great job at teaching you the optimal way to play, many people don't have that 'gamer' (...) sense of how things would go together, and then of course there are some people who are "you don't pay my sub" ice mages. Ultimately, imo, expecting much more than is currently is not likely to change without adjusting target audiences or some other foundational change. Back when I did savage via DF (prior to echo) I would have loved if you had to do some sort of Maat quest to use DF for that content though.... I don't mind if the rotation is too hard or whatever in normal content, but at least try to dodge the orange XD. Even that wouldn't totally filter stuff out though, hence the power of the PF system (can easily kick/control expectations).

[Fourbestintoner]

Most of this playerbase just want to get carried by others.

[Absimiliard]

yes

tenchar

Damn, beaten to the punch.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

As of the Aetherflow allergic SCH I just had in Bardam's Mettle, both.