Quote Originally Posted by Ggwppino View Post
Knowing how to play the class comes when you no longer feel lost when you play it. End. It's not vague. I don't know what you expect besides saying this.
Again, a vague answer with no real definition. Lyth has already mentioned the issue.

The approximate range is that value that makes you clear high-level content. Is it 10%,20%,30%,40%,50%? It's the same, the reward of getting to a good degree of optimization is the ability to clear high-level content, the rest is just for pure personal enjoyment. The rest of the optimization reward is just for the glory.
Again, a vague answer. You need a difference between the baseline and what is expected for the harder content. So, what is generally an accepted increase? 1% isn't going to be enough, 100% too much (i suspect), so, somewhere in the middle. This whole thing started with the drive to optimise and get better, so, what DPS incentive do you need to put that extra work in. It should be a simple question that isn't setting anything in concrete. More of what you yourself feel that would be acceptable. It should not be this hard.


But between the lines I gave you some examples come on!
Making me read between the lines is where misconceptions and assumptions are made. This is what I am trying to avoid. As I have said, I want to talk about the combat system from past expansions and how you thought it was better. I might agree with some points, I might challenge some, however, unless I have a basis to go off of, this discussion cannot happen. It almost seems like you are trying to avoid giving specifics for this exact reason.

Shall we take the new smn? "honey, press the 2 buttons as you want. Ah, be careful babe, you have 6 seconds of casting every minute, it's dangerous!"
I have already stated that SMN is a step too far, however, that cannot be your only point.

The old jobs require the player to manage more things or if we want to be picky they require to manage things.
Examples? BLM probably has more to manage now than it did in HW, despite the Enochian changes, NIN has more to manage now, BRD has more to manage now. Whilst SMN is an extreme example, I would not say it is the case for all jobs.


And you can very well tell me:...
I never claimed it was all QoL, just said it could be seen that way dependant on who you talk to.


but QoL doesn't take away things to do but improve what you are doing.
Not always, if something is not working right, or it feels bad to use, changing it or replacing it with something else that does work is indeed a QoL fix.

it doesn't mean taking away the manage of dots, casts, stacks and placement of the pet.
Noone claimed these were Qol changes to SMN.

QoL doesn't mean taking skills off me because they have to be assigned to others.
You have to trim the fat somewhere if you want new shiny buttons to press. There is only a limited space on someone's hot/crossbar after all.

QoL does not mean increasing the range of a skill by 200% because I don't know how to position myself.
If this is in reference to GNB and continuation, I can tell you right now it is a very welcome change.

QoL doesn't mean taking away a skill that is the heart of the class.
Depends why the action was taken away/changed.

QoL doesn't mean increasing the hitbox of boss by "area of ​​the whole arena".
Noone wanted this.

[QUOTE]QoL doesn't mean remove the task from tanks to place bosses well.[.QUOTE]

Alot of tanks would agree with this as well, myself included.


Accessibility != deprive of everything that can be optimized. Accessibility, and I repeat myself, is the way in which you make the job accessible, you accompany the player to learn it through various methodologies, not that of giving the baby food ready. It's an insult to the intelligence of the players first of all but makes the game monotonous and everything already learned and discovered.
Is it accessibility to change Enochian to a trait where it basically became useless as a button? How about Blood of the Dragon? Greased Lighting? These were things that you never had to manage to one degree or another. So what is the point in keeping them? If keeping them as they are limited design choices, but changing them opened up new avenues for creativity, should it not be changed? You wouldn't have everything you have on BLM as it is now if Enochian wasn't changed, you might not have had LotD if BotD was kept as it was, MNK would have gone another expansion of getting nothing just because of GL.