SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[Amarande]

Some of it feels like that, some of it feels like that general feeling I keep getting that co-op PvE is on its way out and honestly I wish it wasn't because that means a future that's either lonely or filled with an exclusive diet of PvP, which has never been much of a big calling for me (outside of old school board and card games, and that one time I was lucky my friends and I all played Unreal Tournament at the time - yes I'm dating myself - anyways).

Apparently C&V dungeons didn't have enough rewards (I'm still finishing up 6.0, so I haven't had a chance to try them myself and it sounds iffy if I will get to outside of Solo Variant, lol) - but as we know, that's a notoriously fussy thing to balance from a design standpoint.

Deep Dungeons always have a certain draw if only because it's about the only part of the game that has a few teeth left while still being variable enough that you get to use your noggin instead of it being a fiesta of "just paint by numbers from the influencer videos unless you're a world prog grade player yourself" like most PvE feels like now (almost like, why are we even playing the game anymore instead of just watching streamers do it? Not like you can really do it much differently without losing, unlike traditional RPGs. And if you point out that's a flaw, the hardcore people will say they won't feel challenged if it's not that strict. No wonder most casual folks seem more into Venue RP now). But their flaw is that they tend to demand marathon sessions most folks of the interested bent no longer have.

It might just be multiplayer gaming as we knew it that's played out, and the modern shifts seem like they mainly benefit influencers and fans rather than veteran gamers. And while I suppose SE could do otherwise, would it bring in the money they're expected to?

[ReynTime]

Some of it feels like that, some of it feels like that general feeling I keep getting that co-op PvE is on its way out and honestly I wish it wasn't because that means a future that's either lonely or filled with an exclusive diet of PvP, which has never been much of a big calling for me (outside of old school board and card games, and that one time I was lucky my friends and I all played Unreal Tournament at the time - yes I'm dating myself - anyways).

Apparently C&V dungeons didn't have enough rewards (I'm still finishing up 6.0, so I haven't had a chance to try them myself and it sounds iffy if I will get to outside of Solo Variant, lol) - but as we know, that's a notoriously fussy thing to balance from a design standpoint.

Deep Dungeons always have a certain draw if only because it's about the only part of the game that has a few teeth left while still being variable enough that you get to use your noggin instead of it being a fiesta of "just paint by numbers from the influencer videos unless you're a world prog grade player yourself" like most PvE feels like now (almost like, why are we even playing the game anymore instead of just watching streamers do it? Not like you can really do it much differently without losing, unlike traditional RPGs. And if you point out that's a flaw, the hardcore people will say they won't feel challenged if it's not that strict. No wonder most casual folks seem more into Venue RP now). But their flaw is that they tend to demand marathon sessions most folks of the interested bent no longer have.

It might just be multiplayer gaming as we knew it that's played out, and the modern shifts seem like they mainly benefit influencers and fans rather than veteran gamers. And while I suppose SE could do otherwise, would it bring in the money they're expected to?

Criterion's problem isn't only the rewards, so much as it failed to provide a challenge of the same level of deep dungeons, exploratory content or extremes, which are what bridge between casual and savage tier. Instead they gave us more casual (Variant) and two savage (Criterion and Criterion Savage). The rewards sucking is the icing, because for how difficult Criterion is, those rewards are disproportional.

EDIT: I'll also add that in my personal opinion the way V&C offer "alternate paths" feels incredibly artificial. When they explained what it was, I imagined we would get a dungeon type that actually felt like a dungeon again. Instead, it's more content that feels like a theme-park attraction in Disney World. Only this time you're asked to solve puzzles and make your choice of paths when the attraction guide wants you to. On top of that, only Variant, which is easy enough as is, allows a level of flexibility. In the end the full experience barely feels any different to existing dungeon design.