Remove/adjust Goring Blade.

[RyuDragnier]

But what do you want instead? Press 123 again?
You at least press them more then once ecery 60 sec.
While Goring is just taking up space.

And spamming the same move 3 times in a row, a move that has to constantly be dropped from rotation, is somehow better? That's a load of crock and you know it.

[VictorSpoils]

Did you know with the dot the total potency of Goring Blade in 6.2 was 705 ? Why it feel weak only now ? Because it's flat and not delayed in 21s ? Perceptions are kinda strange.

Well, the DoT duration was 1/3 the new CD, so it's definitely weaker in a sense.

[Curisu]

Bump, because after playing the "new" PLD for a while now and kinda liking it, is Goring still the most annoying part about it.

It just does not feel good.

[Rithy255]

Bump, because after playing the "new" PLD for a while now and kinda liking it, is Goring still the most annoying part about it.

It just does not feel good.

Goring blade, FOF and Atonement are still my biggest issues with the Job.

>Goring blade/FOF should be merged, My idea is make goring blade a separate combo like it used to be and it should be giving you a 10% for 30 seconds or something damage buff that can be stacked to 60 seconds, with the bonus of it giving you Synched Skill/spellspeed, maybe even a slight gcd speed boost (very small), so you fit under 60 seconds a lot better (even then it's not currently too important to do so).
>Atonement, I'd like to see reduced to 2 (Give around 800mp per use as ur using HS more), Give a stack of divine might after using 2, allow pld to hold 2 divine might, Atonement shouldn't break combos either.
>other changes, I'd like to see serval actions merged and stuff like circle of scorn removed in all honesty, PLD needs space clean up for future expansions I understand we shouldn't remove anything core to the job, so general merging of abilities would be nice, so we can see new skills on PLD.

[dspguy]

Lots of jobs have a "click this button once every X seconds for damage." Goring Blade isn't any different. That's not to say it isn't bloat. But it is in line with many jobs.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Goring blade, FOF and Atonement are still my biggest issues with the Job.

>Goring blade/FOF should be merged, My idea is make goring blade a separate combo like it used to be and it should be giving you a 10% for 30 seconds or something damage buff that can be stacked to 60 seconds, with the bonus of it giving you Synched Skill/spellspeed, maybe even a slight gcd speed boost (very small), so you fit under 60 seconds a lot better (even then it's not currently too important to do so).
>Atonement, I'd like to see reduced to 2 (Give around 800mp per use as ur using HS more), Give a stack of divine might after using 2, allow pld to hold 2 divine might, Atonement shouldn't break combos either.
>other changes, I'd like to see serval actions merged and stuff like circle of scorn removed in all honesty, PLD needs space clean up for future expansions I understand we shouldn't remove anything core to the job, so general merging of abilities would be nice, so we can see new skills on PLD.

1.) Basically Storm's Eye (combo), not sure how much I like it. However, you hit the nail on the head with the skillspeed/spellspeed issue - though I still think it should be a Trait for every job suffering from it rather than a job action.

2.) Lowering Atonement count probably would mean increasing the potency of it to keep the PPS same-ish. But yeah, Atonement still breaking combos despite every other actions no longer doing so is a sore spot of many Paladins.

3.) I personally would prefer if Circle of Scorn had some sort of extra effect than it being removed. It's a fundamental GLA ability, I'd rather see something happen to it beneficially than to just removing it for the sake of making space we use at Lv92+.

[Rithy255]

1.) Basically Storm's Eye (combo), not sure how much I like it. However, you hit the nail on the head with the skillspeed/spellspeed issue - though I still think it should be a Trait for every job suffering from it rather than a job action.

2.) Lowering Atonement count probably would mean increasing the potency of it to keep the PPS same-ish. But yeah, Atonement still breaking combos despite every other actions no longer doing so is a sore spot of many Paladins.

3.) I personally would prefer if Circle of Scorn had some sort of extra effect than it being removed. It's a fundamental GLA ability, I'd rather see something happen to it beneficially than to just removing it for the sake of making space we use at Lv92+.

1) Yeah I know it's a bit of a clone from warrior, I'll example into my og idea which was Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Goring Blade, as a seperate "damage buff" combo, Which in general I'd like but as PLD's already struggling with space I thought it would be better to just make it off the riot blade combo instead, Eitherway having something warrior has is much better then what we currently have, something to think about generally in your filler is more then needed currently

2) I think lowering atonement will help make it feel less of a "boring" ability, other then that keeping it shorter and having extra combo actions (such as goring), will make the job a lot less about pressing 3 atonements doing your 1, 2, 3 and your DV holy spirit, It's very basic where I'd argue it's in need of adjustments

3) Circle of Scorn, feels sort of useless on the Job, but if it's kept I don't mind all too much I just think it's currently designed really badly and I know most PLD players wouldn't even really care that much about it being removed. But as long as other actions are Merged so plds have space I don't really mind too much.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

>Atonement, I'd like to see reduced to 2 (Give around 800mp per use as ur using HS more), Give a stack of divine might after using 2, allow pld to hold 2 divine might, Atonement shouldn't break combos either.

Personally rather Royal Authority still give Divine Might, allows for freedom instead of have to wait 5 GCDs to get the next one, which feels a bit restrictive. Also this is short sighted as it takes no consideration of pre lvl 76, and reduces potency at lower levels, and if you say use a trait to move DM from RA to Atonement, I'd call that stupid, and would only be change for the sake of change and does nothing but hinder gameplay than add to it. Atonement breaking combo being changed is probably the only thing I 100% agree with. Lowering Sword Oath stacks doesn't really affect anything of value gameplay wise either, you just press 1 key, one less than normal. Adding the ability to stack DM I could take it or leave it tbh.

[Kemeko]

1.) Storm's Eye (combo) version is a step back in the right direction, though it would have to be 15% because PLD is a gcd focused job. Any all purpose potency buff would have to drop our base potencies by the same amount. We'd end up with Royal Authority, Goring Blade, and Atonement with 330 potency, as well as smaller Req potencies, making Goring Blade required as an opener for burst, which I don't mind. FoF has to be seperate, because any attempt to remove it would make our base burst potencies reach 1k+ naturally, without buffs. Haste is a nice idea, but if the rotation didn't align in the first place, haste would only exacerbate it. Instead, have Goring Blade eat a Sword Oath stack by putting "Combo Sword Oath Potency: 490". The potency would be Goring Blade Combo Potency + 1/2 Atonement Potency. Goring Blade would give 1 stack of Divine Might because it's now a combo finisher again. This will make it bookend as both a start and finish to all combo sequences.

2.) Reducing Atonement stacks to 2 would not change base potencies, because the design is written as Royal Authority Potency = Atonement Potency. Any job with multiple combo single hit potencies follows this same mantra. What would happen is essentially, you don't have to drop Atonements because the game did it for you, reducing ability to adjust. Atonement is treated as a combo finisher, it's purposely not designed to be weaved in between combos. Otherwise, you'd have to give it "This weaponskill does not share a recast timer with any other actions." which would be in conflict or redundant with job design of "Can only be executed while under the effect of Sword Oath." If Atonement gave Divine Might, it would have to be adjusted to give 1000 MP to compensate, like Prominence. Making Atonement more interesting would involve making it a combo instead and give you 2 Divine Might and 2 Sword Oath that way while Royal Authority would give you 3 Sword Oath and 1 Divine Might. Which would leave the question, what would Sword Oath do. Sword Oath would have the same function as before, turn your next combo into Atonement potencies, so Fast Blade would have "Sword Oath Potency: (Atonement Potency)" and Riot Blade would have "Combo Sword Oath Potency: (Atonement Potency)", allowing for flexibility. This of course would also lead to another base potency hit, so combined with Goring Blade (Storm Eye), Atonement potency would be at 300, with Goring (Sword Oath) at 450. While numbers would be lower, ppm is relatively the same while keeping it interesting.

3.) With Sword Oath increasing base potencies, you could have Shield Bash, Shield Lob, and Circle of Scorn boosted to Atonement potencies for increased tactics.

Side Note for post below: Current Base Filler Potency is 350.

Royal Authority 3 Sword Oath + 1 Divine Might: (7 combo):
200+280+380+380+380+380+450= 350 potency average

Royal Authority 2 Sword Oath + 1 Divine Might + 2 Divine Might (from Atonement): (8 combo): (Divine Might Holy Spirit Potency adjusted due to only used for filler.)
200+280+380+380+380+390+390+390= 348.75 potency average

Divine Might Holy Spirit would probably go from 390 to 380 instead to eliminate thinking of which to use. If you drop an Atonement, you're dropping both an Atonement and Divine Might Holy Spirit, so 2 gcds instead of one. Unless you fundamentally change how Divine Might works with Requiescat, like combining both potencies, adding more Divine Might Holy Spirits will drop potencies a lot.

[Rithy255]

Personally rather Royal Authority still give Divine Might, allows for freedom instead of have to wait 5 GCDs to get the next one, which feels a bit restrictive. Also this is short sighted as it takes no consideration of pre lvl 76, and reduces potency at lower levels, and if you say use a trait to move DM from RA to Atonement, I'd call that stupid, and would only be change for the sake of change and does nothing but hinder gameplay than add to it. Atonement breaking combo being changed is probably the only thing I 100% agree with. Lowering Sword Oath stacks doesn't really affect anything of value gameplay wise either, you just press 1 key, one less than normal. Adding the ability to stack DM I could take it or leave it tbh.

Royal Authority would still give 1 stack of DV, Using atonement twice would give you another stack, I never mentioned that using royal authority wouldn't still give you a Stack of Divine might, I think you've missed the point completely here, Lowering how much you use Atonement will help to break up the lacking filler phase.

Let me explain the changes: You get one stack of Divine might from royal authority, you get another stack of divine might for using Atonement twice, aka once you spent your stacks of atonement you will gain a stack of Might. this replaces your 3rd atonement with another Holy spirit, you also are able to hold two Divine Mights at a time to be more flexiable, Does that make better sense? It wouldn't change PLD at lower levels, other then holding two Divine Mights.

Lets also talk about PLD at "lower levels" because the job at anything below 64, is beyond boring to play anyway it feels like the Job is only being taken into account at level 80-90, because is PLD even fun in the first place at lower levels? no how about Holy spirit in general is gained at lower levels? divine might aswell, We need More to do at lower levels in the first place, so even if I suggested any changes to PLD that might effect it at lower levels, my position is that it's already needs major changes at lower levels.