Can we have an official response on the RMT sub FC farms?

[Stormpeaks]

So you have no evidence nor have you provided any after being asked multiple times, but have just decided that they are engaging in RMT, while others have told you multiple times how it would not be useful for RMT? Cool story bro.

OP sure likes their echo chamber, which in all fairness makes it pretty funny

[Nepentha]

So you have no evidence nor have you provided any after being asked multiple times, but have just decided that they are engaging in RMT, while others have told you multiple times how it would not be useful for RMT? Cool story bro.

No, despite the title of this post being "Can we have an official response on the RMT sub FC farms?" they're claiming now that they don't really mean everyone is RMTing with subs.

Honestly they're clutching pearls that someone /might/. Despite being told it's extremely unlikely due to the nature of leveling subs and workshops taking so much time, effort, and gil to get to the point they bring anything of worth back and several more months before you break even.

Just the mere possibility of someone, after doing all that work, maybe selling gil as RMT brings on a case of the vapors. There's no evidence anywhere that it's going on. Most sub runners I've spoken to wouldn't dare risk losing all that work. And if anyone has evidence, they should be reporting it. This thread is about a nothing burger of conjecture and what if.

*checks watch* Waiting for the graphic about exploits yadda yadda as a reply, now.

Meanwhile the actual RMTers are busy with bunny bots in Eureka, forming bot groups to do map farming, and setting up marketboard bots to perpetually undercut sales by 1 gil 24/7.

[CatStarwind]

So you have no evidence nor have you provided any after being asked multiple times, but have just decided that they are engaging in RMT, while others have told you multiple times how it would not be useful for RMT? Cool story bro.

Who exactly did I decide was engaging in RMT? As I said, trying to derail this so it attempts to target any individual or group of individuals is tiresome.

[Elevin]

Who exactly did I decide was engaging in RMT? As I said, trying to derail this so it attempts to target any individual or group of individuals is tiresome.

It's been established, despite previously locking players to one personal plot per character, that entire wards are still owned by single players for the sole purpose of abusing submarines. This obviously has large RMT ramifications due to the amount of gil generated by this. Not to mention leaving wards feeling barren.

Noone deserves griefing or harassment so I feel it's in everyone's best interest if SE directly confronts this abuse and makes clear their intention with allowing a single individual to essentially set up crypto-like farms that suck the life out of a neighborhood and waste communal resources.

I think the first post speaks for itself.

"for the sole purpose of abusing submarines. This obviously has large RMT ramifications due to the amount of gil generated by this."

[MAJRIS]

Yet more assumptions that people get all those houses for reselling or for RMT, yall dont ever give up spreading false information do you ?

Bro I'm not "spreading" anything. I'm not claiming to have proof that all house owners are RMT sellers. but there is small group of them. Its not misinformation, the recent forum threads are the proof.
Go to housing discords and browse a little bit. if you stroke some egos long enough, people love to brag about owning houses even across continents. Nothing wrong withthat, We all love to be praised. Browse long enough to see houses being sold for 200 milion, 300 milion, 500 milion.

I would be happy to show at least 10 large houses on my DC that have one boosted owner with one job unlocked and nothing else, no msq progress, house locked, one of ten same looking midlanders in FC, waiting to be sold on one of websites, but its against TOS to show names.
Also happy to show you botters in action in main city, running all day long, trading gil across worlds, but again, its against TOS to show names.
happy to show you messages of people organizing house hunts on new wards, to be further sold for gil. but you will claim it's disinformation or conspiracy, right?

Nobody said owning more houses equals rmt. you're taking it to black and white situation.

unless we have staff joining the thread and shedding some light, it's all speculation.
do they have way of tracking the big trades? do they see buying from retainers? o they have overview of how much gil and houses are tied to account?
without it it's just claim against claim and peoples wishful thinking, I'm afraid.

[CatStarwind]

I think the first post speaks for itself.

"for the sole purpose of abusing submarines. This obviously has large RMT ramifications due to the amount of gil generated by this."

Yes, having multiple single member FCs is abusing submarines; as previously established it's quite literally circumventing established rules.

RMT is not the abuse, it's just the possibility due to the sheer ease of hitting gil cap once established and the absolute safety in doing so. i.e "the ramification"

You might as well argue that no one with a zoom mod will ever claim WF for an Ultimate.

[Jojoya]

The problem I have with the idea is that it just doesn't mesh with the threat profile of the average RMT merchant. The point of RMT bots is to be fast, disposable, and minimize exposure of assets to GM/STF intervention. A sub farm is exactly none of these things. The spin-up is measured in months, the ROI on some servers compared to just selling the house outright on the grey/black market can be measured in *years*, they take substantial amounts of capital investment and so are exposed to huge loss from even a single ban, they require a greater deal of asset movement and so are easier to trace..

Like, I can maybe see an intra-FC operation that sells within itself for pocket change, or someone who sells to a specific community, but from the perspective of a public-facing seller? It's all downsides.

Not all RMT is done by "RMT merchants". Some people use their hobbies as a way of making a little extra spending cash on the side. A google search with the right keywords will quickly return a website that facilitates player to player transactions.

But too many people in this thread are equating "it can be done" with "everyone with a sub farm is doing it". That's not true. Some like the theorycrafting side of the workshop. That theorycrafting requires multiple workshops to get the needed data.

Others do it to help their friends get the fun items that come from voyages without having to pay MB prices. Others have other reasons. They aren't utilizing the gil farming builds and routes because they're not really into the workshops for the gil even though the potential is there.

But not going to deny that others are into it solely for the gil. I know of one player who was doing it without a doubt, openly admitted to it in a Discord and said SE never does anything about RMT so might as well do it. He would brag with each new FC house and workshop he acquired. The player also disappeared mid-Shadowbringers. Did he quit playing for his own reasons? Did SE get sufficient proof to ban his account? I have no idea. I just know he was doing it.

Only SE has the ability to tell which players operating sub farms for the gil are simply storing the gil earned and which are passing it to other players through suspicious transactions.

[Sindele]

Yeah, I certainly don't entirely disbelieve that some ops like that might exist, but it's such a risky operation that it strains credulity to assert there's a significant population of people banging down the doors to do it. Certainly not something that would contribute to supply crunch in any significant way - statistical analysis of house-owning FCs in the past has largely seemed to agree.

Of course, the OP was originally focusing on fully owned wards, anyway, which - like - the first rule of crime is "don't draw attention to what you're doing". But hey, maybe the toothless STF has led to the dumbest generation of criminals ever somehow getting away with it?

[CatStarwind]

It's just lack of enforcement, that's why I mentioned it being a safe bet. You'd have to personally turn yourself in for anything to remotely happen.

[Jojoya]

Yeah, I certainly don't entirely disbelieve that some ops like that might exist, but it's such a risky operation that it strains credulity to assert there's a significant population of people banging down the doors to do it. Certainly not something that would contribute to supply crunch in any significant way - statistical analysis of house-owning FCs in the past has largely seemed to agree.

Of course, the OP was originally focusing on fully owned wards, anyway, which - like - the first rule of crime is "don't draw attention to what you're doing". But hey, maybe the toothless STF has led to the dumbest generation of criminals ever somehow getting away with it?

Some of the fully owned wards have nothing to do with workshops at all. Look at the one ward on Mateus bought out by a pair of players way back at the start of Stormblood when there were no restrictions. That was done solely to have full control over how the ward was decorated. Others do it for the same reason.

If you walk into a ward and nothing's decorated, safe to say it's probably for workshop farming.

It's just lack of enforcement, that's why I mentioned it being a safe bet. You'd have to personally turn yourself in for anything to remotely happen.

How do you know it's a lack of enforcement as opposed to SE reviewing what evidence gets submitted to them and finding nothing clearly supporting that the player is engaged in activity that violates the ToS?

Angry players submit reports all the time about others they accuse of doing X, Y or Z. It's not uncommon for the other player to be doing nothing wrong at all. It's usually the first player overreacting or trying to get revenge for some presumed slight.'

Get your evidence that a specific player is doing something wrong and submit it. If you can't find any actual evidence, stop making assumptions and move on. You're only making your life more miserable by trying to be a hall monitor looking for others doing things they're not supposed to be doing instead of relaxing and enjoying the game.