Clockwork Castletown is a terrible map for casual players

[CidHeiral]

I don't think players being bad at the game is a good reason to not design more complex maps. Most players aren't great at PvE either, should every boss be Sastasha level?

[Valence]

you have to simply not care about the result. otherwise youll never enjoy it. playing with randoms will always be this way

I mean, there is not caring about the ladder, and not caring at all, but for the latter you'd need to have lost all will to live at that point. It's not about caring or tryharding on the ladder, it's just about caring getting decent games. The ones that end under 2min because of that very problem I mentioned, I find that they're a waste of time and energy, and feel bad no matter the side you're on.

[Valence]

I don't think players being bad at the game is a good reason to not design more complex maps. Most players aren't great at PvE either, should every boss be Sastasha level?

That's a valid point, but as far as I can see the players that actually seem to have noticed not to do that on that specific map:

1) can be counted on the digit of a single hand per DC
2) don't even seem to be tied to actual pvp skill or rank, they also do the same bullshit in diam/crystal

[anna-steele]

I mean, there is not caring about the ladder, and not caring at all, but for the latter you'd need to have lost all will to live at that point. It's not about caring or tryharding on the ladder, it's just about caring getting decent games. The ones that end under 2min because of that very problem I mentioned, I find that they're a waste of time and energy, and feel bad no matter the side you're on.

lose all will to live? lets not be so dramatic. if the game is going to end it 2 minutes, then let it end in 2 minutes and play another round. or just avoid the map. it goes away after an hour or so. you cannot control the cosmic forces of the blueberry, youll drive yourself mad trying to do so.

[Valence]

lose all will to live? lets not be so dramatic. if the game is going to end it 2 minutes, then let it end in 2 minutes and play another round. or just avoid the map. it goes away after an hour or so. you cannot control the cosmic forces of the blueberry, youll drive yourself mad trying to do so.

That's what I'm already doing. Why are you moving the goalposts? You told me to not care about the result. I don't really care about them already. I care about the game we're getting, and this map doesn't deliver much, which is my feedback about it.

I'm really unsure what is the point you're trying to make here? If that was that I should just not even care about the fun or quality of games I'm getting, then no, that would just be apathetic and sad.

[Gserpent]

I don't think players being bad at the game is a good reason to not design more complex maps. Most players aren't great at PvE either, should every boss be Sastasha level?

This isn't a functional analogy. For one, yes, that is *exactly* what they do - every single normal and dungeon boss is a complete joke, they are all "sastasha level." Normal modes are so easy that they fucking nerfed Into the Cold, probably the first time in a *long* time they've done any kind of single player/normal mode content that isn't a hand-holding straight line from start to finish, and people bitched incessantly about it because "omg, I have to actually *think about what I'm doing??*" So, yeah - all bosses *are* "sastasha level."

Second, for any kind of high-end/challenging content, *we are allowed to create and manage our own teams for it.* People virtually never enter savages with a randomly assigned group - the only place that does this is Japan DCs, where it's socially expected that you only enter Raid Finder for reclears, and my understanding is it's a pretty major faux pas to enter RF without being ready to clear/having already cleared at least once. On NA and EU, savage is done exclusively through Party Finder or pre-arranged statics, where you can vet each and every single person in your team and have full control over your team composition.

Moreover, in raids, you have time to stop and do Q&A sessions if people are making mistakes. You have time to tell the group to take 5 minutes for water/bio and to review a guide for the phase or mechanic you're progging. You can essentially call "time out" whenever you want. Yeah, sure, you might need to re-zone eventually, but even if you're committed to "we stop after zone time out," the time limit is pretty generous.

Compare this to literally *any* PvP activity. We can't queue into Frontlines, Rival Wings, or CC with a full group. In CC, we can *only* solo queue. There are no time-outs or intermissions in these modes to answer questions or discuss strategy, and in CC you can't change your class once you enter the game, even before the match actually begins. There's no option to re-queue with the same people you just had (though they did just add it to custom lobbies, probably for the sake of convenience.) Hell, in CC you can't even actually chat, you have to rely on a very limited set of quickchat commands. Lastly, there is no way to enter Frontlines or Rival Wings matches to practice things, and entering CC requires creating a custom match, which requires several players.

It's not remotely comparable. Square-Enix basically does everything they can to ensure that people cannot coordinate or teach each other in PvP. Given that, they should *not* be designing maps around assuming people are playing well and coordinating, because that's explicitly not how it works in reality. Or they should design two versions of each map - one for Duty Finder, and one for Custom Matches. Replace the doors with typical sprint zones in the DF version, for example.

[Jybril]

It's trash in comp too.
Please remove it. I actually look every
time to see if it's on rotation. My main issue is the walls/camera and I can't really see anything going on with all the gimmicks everywhere. The place is too tiny for all this lmao.

[anna-steele]

That's what I'm already doing. Why are you moving the goalposts? You told me to not care about the result. I don't really care about them already. I care about the game we're getting, and this map doesn't deliver much, which is my feedback about it.

I'm really unsure what is the point you're trying to make here? If that was that I should just not even care about the fun or quality of games I'm getting, then no, that would just be apathetic and sad.

no goal posts were moved, dont use terms you are unfamiliar with. yes the map is terrible. just dont play it if you are "losing the will to live"
lol

[RajNish]

I don't find this map particularly difficult, although I still get confused sometimes, I'm not very good with space until I learn any location, so not surprising. And I do not think that making this map easier for casual matches will give something to novice players and those who want to try to jump higher. I will try to explain my point of view.

I've faced the current high rankers many times in casual matches and it's a good practice. It is possible to study their tactics and combat habits and roughly understand how they use the location and its capabilities. For example, to understand that player N goes to door 1 in one scenario, to door 2 in another scenario, and depending on his class and the setup of the enemy group, is behind corner 2 in another scenario. So later, when I see this player in the rankings on this map, I can say with a 90% probability what awaits us. So next time for me personally, there will be no literal effect of stunning by surprise.

In addition, experienced players who come to casual matches to warm up will not be interested in playing this because the map will be different. Well, the advantage that you get simply because this is easier in casual is very doubtful. I understand that many people do not want to waste an hour and a half of playing time bypassing this map if they do not like it, and do not want to see crowds of confused players and loose because of that, but this is the reality. Subjectively, I see here more opportunities than troubles.

As for tactical interaction within the group through a quick chat, here I absolutely agree. These opportunities are currently very weak. I would like to have the messages "Help!", "Attacking from the rear", "Attacking from the flank!", "Onslaught!", "Enemy in the rear", "Enemy from the flank", and not all these "Nice job!", "Good match!" and other crap. It would also be nice if ignore marks, which are really important, could only be placed on the enemy, and not used to abuse group members.

[Valence]

no goal posts were moved, dont use terms you are unfamiliar with. yes the map is terrible. just dont play it if you are "losing the will to live"
lol

Still unsure what point you're trying to make by replying to me since the beginning?

I'm not losing the will to live by playing it. You should actually read what i'm writing, maybe that's the issue?