What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

Can I say something that has been on my mind forever.

Why did we have to tie up a closing loose end with a character that was only around for a patch in the final portion of the story where we should have been defending against blasphemies but instead we move boxes and watch urianger hug the parents of this character who barely had any major impact in the story?

Am I the only one who didn't really care about an ARR character? Of Course I'm talking Moenbryda. She had zero impact on me. And having her parents forced in for 15 minutes of a critical end of story prep it was just more on the fire for bad pacing.

Really? That was actually one of my most enjoyed and anticipated parts.

[Absurdity]

I completely forgot Moenbryda existed.

[aveyond-dreams]

I completely forgot Moenbryda existed.

She definitely wasn't half as memorable as Nabriales. Funny how all the former colleagues Venat manipulated us into killing were so much more interesting than any scion to date.

[Midareyukki]

Can I say something that has been on my mind forever.

Why did we have to tie up a closing loose end with a character that was only around for a patch in the final portion of the story where we should have been defending against blasphemies but instead we move boxes and watch urianger hug the parents of this character who barely had any major impact in the story?

Am I the only one who didn't really care about an ARR character? Of Course I'm talking Moenbryda. She had zero impact on me. And having her parents forced in for 15 minutes of a critical end of story prep it was just more on the fire for bad pacing.

Because, for better or for worse, she remains a big part of Urianger's character. Except she didn't have an impact on us, and that's the issue... WE'RE the readers, not Uribanger.

Still, she meant something to him, she went unresolved for years on end and that part was them finishing a circle. We've seen other characters come to terms with personal grievances and reminisce on where they started and where they now are. Urianger usually only had to do this for one character archetype, that of the benevolent "traitor". He still needed his feelings on Moenbryda addressed, since her death was kind of blitzed through.

See... I see this not as us closing Moenbryda, but closing Urianger's chapter. She was his Minfilia, his Ga Bu. She was part of who he was at an emotional level, it's part of his resolution and motivation. I feel like the intended aspect there was to allow that part of his story to move forward and allow him to have an emotional scene. What they forgot was the fact that unlike Minfilia, Ga Bu, what have you, Moenbryda had zero relevance past loose references here and there.

And I can make it worse. One other thing that no one is mentioning is how they DO still reference Moenbryda after her death... in Ivalice-Bozja... through Mikoto...
1 - They fail at "Show, don't tell", since Mikoto is always portraying Moenbryda as something grander than what she was on-screen
2 - They also fail at making Mikoto remotely palatable. Especially in Bozja where she's the unwitting instigator of doom about three times in a row. So people will either tune out or just outright have a poor view of whatever she has to say on anyone.

So that scene? I can justify it with "The impact was meant to be about Urianger" and that's why it exists. We're meant to see him. However, it was obviously fully centered on Moenbryda, who was horribly handled. Because it's clear they tried to give Moenbryda crumbs afterward. It was just too little, too late, and way too poorly done anyway.

[Xirean]

I'd have to disagree on her not having an impact for the WoL. It was her idea to use white auricite to beat the ascians. An idea we continued to use every time we fought them. Sure her time was short lived on screen and imo it's a damn shame because she popped in and instantly stole the show, at least for me.

I do agree though for the wrest of your points though. They really should show more than tell.

[Midareyukki]

I'd have to disagree on her not having an impact for the WoL. It was her idea to use white auricite to beat the ascians. An idea we continued to use every time we fought them. Sure her time was short lived on screen and imo it's a damn shame because she popped in and instantly stole the show, at least for me.

Then let's make a different exercise.

"Would the results we obtained be the same had it been another character doing it?"

If the answer is "No", then it's because the impact the character had in the scene and overall progress hence is substantial and reflects something on the character themself than anything else.

Example: "Would impact be the same if the Exarch were, say, Rammbroes?". No, because Rammbroes is largely unafilliated with the Allagan empire, would have a very passing knowledge of the Crystal Tower's true purpose, and he doesn't value the WoL as much as G'raha does. Meaning his resilience and mastery over the Tower would be different and so too would be our interactions with the Exarch vary tremendously.

If the answer is "Yes", then it shows that the character's impact was just to pass on a McGuffin. It was trivial; they weren't the reason why the method, item or experience existed inherently, just the most convenient vehicle for it. Their impact can be replaced, because the core item remains.

Example: "Would it remain the same if Thancred had given us the dagger to go learn how to meld Materia rather than Minfilia?". The answer is Yes. Because the dagger's ownership is largely meaningless, it has no inherent value to anyone. And Thancred himself was seen carrying knives early on as ARR given that he's a Rogue at that time. So it would still remain coherent if he were the one who knew of Mutamix and had sent us there.

We have several scholars from Sharlayan, any of them could have come up with the idea of using White Auracite. The fact that it was Moenbryda is too minor for that to amount to anything else. It's since been established that Urianger and Y'shtola are brilliant scholars in their own right, and likely could have gotten there if a) they had a bit more thought on their part, or b) had the knowledge themselves. While it does serve to characterise Moenbryda as someone knowledgeable, the fact that nothing else about her is established due to her death diminishes the impact. And her easily-replaceable nature in the impact it affords us unfortunately doesn't help. There's zero indication that things would be utterly different had Moenbryda not been the one to suggest it, but someone else instead.

I don't want to downplay Moenbryda, but this is my argument, and unfortunately this is what I draw from it. SHE wasn't important. She was just there to be given something to do as a new Scion recently-introduced to the plot. The important bit was the McGuffin. She was just the vehicle to carry it. Unfortunately, anyone else could have done the same.

And unfortunately, in the grand scale of things, especially past that? It's not that big a deal.

Sure, the event itself is impactful, and Moenbryda IS elevated for it, I won't deny that. But to say that that "impact" had anything worthwhile in the future story regarding her is a bit much. That one scene alone only gave us a means to an end, not an emotional impact. Nothing that made her stand out.

[Xirean]

Short for character limit.

I see your point here, but the answer to me is simply not to kill her off in that same quest line she was introduced in. If all you're looking at is the impact on the story and you're willing to ignore it because "any other smart character could have done the same" then there's no point of agreement we can reach. The game established her as the expert on the substance and credited her with the idea. I'm not gonna try to go through hoops to discredit that. Sorry.

[Midareyukki]

I see your point here, but the answer to me is simply not to kill her off in that same quest line she was introduced in. If all you're looking at is the impact on the story and you're willing to ignore it because "any other smart character could have done the same" then there's no point of agreement we can reach. The game established her as the expert on the substance and credited her with the idea. I'm not gonna try to go through hoops to discredit that. Sorry.

Yeah. I agree. The issue with her was that they killed her off >:U WAY too soon!

And yeah, in that one specific example, I am only looking at that scene. I'm not willing to ignore it, I feel like that's the issue here. You're saying I'm ignoring it... but I'm not? Rather, I'm acknowledging that the impact you're referring to is something different than the impact people are referring to.

What people are referring to is a moment in the MSQ where it's clear that the issue is the emotional impact it's left on Urianger. Moenbryda didn't stick around long enough to have such an impact on us, even if it was incredibly sad to see someone cool die. She remained largely forgettable, even if she gave us a method to handle things.

What you're referring to is her having an impact on the plot. But many people have an impact on the plot as well, even more minor characters than she was. You have the guy who tricks people into being tempered by Ifrit. You have Momodi Modi who was part of the plot to assassinate the Sultana. You have the Viis sisters in the Raktika greatwood who explore the ruins with us for a while. You have that shady Namazu who sells people out...

But in that case, yes, more so than half of the ones I mentioned, Moenbryda's impact does stick around. You can argue Ungust(?) also had a similar impact, since without him we wouldn't have fought Ifrit, gained notoriety or even begun to understand our Echo.

The issue is that her impact is still slighted. She's the expert on the substance, sure. But Y'shtola is an Aetherologist... yet she proves capable and knowledgeable in other fields as well, it's likely she'd know as well. Given the influence the rock has on aether, it's likely Y'shtola would have known and afford us that knowledge.

That's the issue. Even in the crowning moment that stuck to us and gave us progression in our quests forward, Moenbryda is a replaceable character. Things don't change even if it's not her.

And given the rest of the conversation people were having.... yeah... not even an emotional impact.

So, no. I'm the one who's sorry because... you're the one who doesn't want to admit that she isn't as important as you make her out to be. Especially not in the way the conversation was about. She does have her importance, of course she does SHE is the one who gives us that knowledge, that's what's written. But unfortunately, take a closer look, and it doesn't stand that well.

But still. It's fine to disagree.

[Xirean]

Actually the only reason I brought up the plot impact was because it was quite clear that her loss did not impact you specifically. I personally liked her character a great deal and her short time did leave an impact on me and thus my WoL. I had a number of things I wanted to see in Sharlyan and Moenbryda's parents was number 2 on that list.

[Midareyukki]

Actually the only reason I brought up the plot impact was because it was quite clear that her loss did not impact you specifically. I personally liked her character a great deal and her short time did leave an impact on me and thus my WoL. I had a number of things I wanted to see in Sharlyan and Moenbryda's parents was number 2 on that list.

And that's fine o:

Like, that's perfectly fine, that's valid.

I'm not saying she's a bad character. She's not a weak character. She had more than just Auracite, she had more than just a short-lived presence. She was more, otherwise people would DEFINITELY have forgotten her. If that were the case, that moment on Aitiascope? No one would bat an eye, and I've seen people actually remember Moenbryda faster than they recognized Haurchefant's help xD

But, for example, if you're a fan of Moenbryda, did you enjoy the times Mikoto went on about her? Because that for sure flew under many people's radar even at the time. Mostly because Bozja/Ivalice was considered boring, some because Mikoto is about as good a character as drywall. And what I take from that isn't "Moen sucks so hard that they gave her character development to an underappreciated character lol". It's "The devs still clearly care about developping Moenbryda, even if it's a little bit. It's just unfortunate it had to be through someone like Mikoto.".

Now, the impact she had on you specifically? That I can't speak for. All I can say is that it's valid, alright? But when it comes to the plot itself? Her being so short-lived didn't have as much of an impact on the majority of players as it should have for someone presented with such relevance and spotlight. So while it's totally fine for you to feel attached to this character, the issue is that for myself and for many people, she wasn't handled well. At all. And that interfered a lot with how people received her past her death. Which definitely killed a lot of the momentum she should have had.

So the issue there comes from how the parents scene speaking more volumes about Urianger, the one we can connect to the most and we know more about, than Moenbryda whom we didn't have the proper chance to connect to as well as other Scions.

Keep in mind, this is all purely subjective. Just because myself and other people feel this way about Moenbryda, it DOES NOT mean you're in the wrong for liking her and having a larger attachment. Okay? o: AT ALL.

Again. It's fine to disagree. But I'd argue it's even more fine (is that a word?) to like and appreciate Moenbryda, even if the rest doesnt' as much.