YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[Shurrikhan]

Press Equilibrium on WAR.
Any strays will magnet to you.

Heck, popping any (de)buff will pull off others any mob that is also technically engaged against you. All buff/debuff applications have a small amount of enmity attached, and that can be useful after being multiplied a dozenfold by tank stance. (This is also why HoTs' application can still pull off the facepuller even after the ticks' enmity has been removed... which facepullers can in turn pull back by popping any buff of their own.)

[Gserpent]

Press Equilibrium on WAR.
Any strays will magnet to you.

The Blue Mage school of threat management.

[Akemi_Akoi]

to me the issue with YPYT is that it can go both ways. I've seen plenty of people pull big groups then run around several bends in the map trying to collect more mobs while I the healer is still trying to catch up with them. (sprint is on cooldown from the last time they ran ahead) and so by the the time I can get the tank in my effective range they are basically dead and I can't heal them fast enough from that point with as big of a crowd they had pulled and then with mob of that size once the tank is gone there's no way to keep up the dps's and try to rez the tank at the same time with only one healer. or situations where me and one of my tank friends are working on a mob of the size we know we can handle and someone then brings in a whole bunch more monsters and it gets to be to much and again we end up going down. I've also seen situations where one person said they need to take a bathroom break so most of us are waiting for them to get back but then one guy decides to just pull them and we have to try fighting now one man down because they couldn't wait a few mins.

But I've also had those who will be downright rude to me if I don't follow their favorite pattern to a t, and of course don't let me know what that is those people I'm much more inclined not to help.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

As a tank my job is to hold threat and survive. If I have not collected threat on the mob then that is problem for whomever did pull it. I pull based on my survivability and where my Cooldowns are at. YPYT is no more griefing then a DPS failing to target swap or a player refusing to stack. I play by my role and if you feel you can tank better; you will be happy to know that there are 2 tank jobs that don't even require you to start over. - pick up those jobs if you want to control the flow of progress in the dungeon is my advice.

As a tank I do not like folks trying to "rush" me - especially given that most dungeons are tailored now to 2 pack pulls max. Otherwise I would ask SE to bring out DPS meters so we can start reporting underperforming DPS....after all its THEIR job to make the mob dead. If we are going to start putting in a time restriction - then I do not want to see a second cast of reinforcements get off in the current end game dungeons.

Or we can just stop trying to force people to move outside their comfort zone because they are not up to someone elses standards - fortunately even the SLOWEST roulettes end in about 90 mins.

I got no issue with a RDP pulling mobs into my AOE cluster for example....but especially in low levels I seen more then a few GNB get destroyed because DPS knew best....and thats to say nothing of Aurum Vale.

[dspguy]

As a tank my job is to hold threat and survive. If I have not collected threat on the mob then that is problem for whomever did pull it.

On that same thread, are DPS that single target large pulls griefing as well? What about healers that don't DPS?

Every player should play the game the way I tell them to

[Ayan_Calvesse]

I mean if a DPS does not want to AOE who am I to stop them?
Ditto for healers; especially leveling whom often do not actually DPS while leveling up?

I would say similar thread - the difference being that I am not FORCING the DPS nor Healer to do something while I am tanking. A DPS pulling mobs is now dictating "my" job (as mentioned before especially newer tanks that do not have a good comfortable grasp of when they need what CDs)
If a DPS chooses to single target; thats their choice; its probably not going to get me killed.
If a healer chooses not to dps - likewise.

If they pull stuff I am not ready for or comfortable with pulling - then their actions force me to do something. The threads are similar however; and the comedy is that some people probably do think they are "in charge" of the group. Tanks are the ideal for tanking mobs; but 1 mob is not probably going to melt a dps anyways.

[Asari5]

its a game you play with other people. so everyone in the group should do its best. everything else would be unpolite. of course that includes dps aoe and positionals, healer dmg (if they have time) and how much a tank pulls

i dont understand how people can defend beimg lazy (which means they push what they could do onto others)
i dont expect perfect gameplay, but trying to do its best for the group isnt too much.... mistakes are allowed, but so many people who dont grow because they stay in their little comfortable bubble

[shadowclasper]

For my part on any dungeon I ask the healer if they want single, double, or wall to wall pulls, and then expect folks to abide by that, if they're a jerk about it and ignore the rate we agreed on at the beginning, I don't turn off tank stance but I ask them politely once, then second point, if the dps keeps at it I tell them next time I'm shirking to them, and the third time they do it I begin shirking onto them until I can initiate a vote-kick.

It's not about hard and fast ypyt, it's about what's fun for everyone in the party.

[tookietook2]

Ultimatly this is a team sport everyone has roles to do if DPS was ment to pull then they could pull wall to wall keep aggro and live, the tank and healer set the pace as if they can handle wall to wall they will its a communication thing and ive literaly been told by the DPS can pull crew they dont have to talk to anyone in the party and do what they want and if the tank dosnt like it dont tank or go to trust. im sorry but PULLING threat is what the tank dose i don't see DPS pulls in savages. if your in a group thats cool with it by all means but thats communication. I see from the pro dps pulling alot of excuses and justafication on why its ok, even though the trinity of groups has all ways been tank pulls threat, and the second the tank who trys to say i cant or dont like this can you let me the tank is evil an griefing i dont get it. im sorry but if your standered attituid is i can pull as a DPS even though your class is not desined to do so, lack or armor, smaller HP, no CDs you have defensive yes but not a CD and lack of threat generation means no you dont have the tools, your the toxic sorry. even boot camp in the game tells us the basic let the tank pull so they can group it all up for your aoe and not have to worry same with the healer if your pulling your taking needless dmg. but agian if your in a group and thier cool with do what your heat wants otherwise be apart of the team dont put the tank on the bench be the tank, dont tell them to go to trust thats just BS of the highest order.

[Asari5]

'always been' eh?

yeah in other games. because in other games there are reasons for it.

1. pulling generates a LOT of aggro. so much its difficult to generate more aggro even for the tank. (especially since tanks often dont generate duch an overkill of aggro in other games)

2. adds do so much dmg they kill a dps in like 1 second.

3. there are so many enemies in one room (some of them moving around) which makes it necessary to pull very careful. otherwise you would have like 20 enemies attacking you at once.

these are the reasons why usually a tank is the one pulling... but NONE of these reasons apply to ff14.

tanks arent even the groups leader. everyone can explain stuff and lead the group through a dungeon.
but since HW, there isnt even a need to lead people through dungeons because they all are one way corridors anyway.

and because all of that its not really important who pulls. not like 1-2 attacks from the tank are enough to get the aggro. right?

now... because dungeons are simply corridors there shouldnt really be a reason for the dps to pull... every enemy stands on the way the whole group has to walk anyway.

but i guess its the tank who decides: 'i am the leader because... well... i am great. so i can decide to only pull one group of enemies. healers dont wanna heal anyway. and dps arent a factor in thrashpulls... like what could they possibly do to help?'

if the tank pulls there is no reasons for others to pull... if you pull too much to handle... well people dont get better if they stay in their comfortable little bubble. what could possibly happen? you die? oh no how terrible dieing in a game.