Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Atelier-Bagur]

Where are the lies? I want to discuss - This thread is regarding the 'MMO' portion. Let's talk, you want to talk. You had your chance right here even. We can be civil.

Talking about the MSQ shouldn't even be allowed here. We can all agree it's not even a Multiplayer experience.

Im just baffled at some of these statements you make

"most people didnt give a shit about MSQ, nothing made sense, writing was 90% awful"

"FFXIV barely breathing, we had a surge from the WoW exodus, dont pat yourself on the back so hard"

1st one is just, hilariously not true. Story engagement doesnt just happen overnight or over a single expansion. Interest gets build slowly through time and seeing how far, the lore goes as well as characters is the reason why the later expansions were more often than not successful to the general audience.

2nd point is a blatant hard twist of the facts about the popularity and sales of FFXIV. Yes indeed, the WoW surge prior to EW was a huge factor to FFXIV's boon, but if you actually pay attention to the numbers and sales, the game has been on its own slowly improving and favoring the general populace, regardless of WoW or not.

[DPZ2]

What are you talking about? I've repeatedly - WE have repeatedly discussed this. Saying it has not been addressed does not make it true, this whole thread is in regards to the 'MMO' portion of the MMORPG called Final Fantasy XIV.

IT IS A LACKLUSTER MMO

Every truly successful MMORPG in the last 20 years has been a single-player leveling experience with coop mode dungeon instances, raids, FATE equivalents, etc. None of them require a player to "team up" with someone else to level from 1 to max level. Well, except for this game, where mandatory periodic dungeon instances were part of the story. They're getting away from that now, so that the actual game play while leveling is on par with other MMORPGs.

There is nothing exciting about the leveling process of other games. I don't even know why people express their love for the cooperative leveling process of World of Warcraft, as it now takes about 20 hours to get to max level. I know that if a friend of mine invited me to that game, I wouldn't expect them to hold my hand during the exceedingly short leveling process. I'd do my best to rush through the content on my own to get to what WoW does best -- end-game Mythic+ and Raids. "I can join my friends in end game with a week's worth of evenings spent leveling? Sign me up!"

As for your other concerns, well. There are no more raids, right? There are no more new dungeons in any given patch, right? FATEs are so simple that you can one-shot those 30 minute Endwalker FATEs by yourself now, right? There aren't any harder bits of content at all, right? This game is so easy that you can ROFLstomp Ultimate Raids by yourself, right? And how about all of those A-rank and S-rank hunts out there. You're obviously one-shotting every single Endwalker boss at this point, right?

Pfui.

This game has all of the same components for multiplayer engagement as any of the other MMORPGs out there. The main story is certainly becoming much more single-player friendly. It must be attractive to many players. If nobody used it in Shadowbringers, SE would have abandoned that kind of content as fast as Diadem 1.0.

[Raven2014]

Where are the lies?

Pretty much the majority of your post.

I want to discuss - This thread is regarding the 'MMO' portion. Let's talk, you want to talk. You had your chance right here even.

You're not discussing, you're are blatantly making thing up. If it's on purpose, than you just straight up lying. If you're not doing on purpose, than you're making a bunch of assumption out of ignorant. You're creating your own definition and argue it's the fact of the universe.

And it's MMO-RPG. You don't get to choose to chop off half of the label just to suit your argument. FF14 has both, and no amount of arse pulling will change that. An MMORPG with only MMO and no RPG will become a MOBA game, and that's a completely category.

Talking about the MSQ shouldn't even be allowed here.

This is like saying "let's have a debate but I'm the only one allowed to talk".

Also this just prove you're a hypocrite. Because you said this and right below continue to talk about the MSQ.

We can all agree it's not even a Multiplayer experience.

No, we don't. I have over thousands of hours in FF14, and only a minuscule of that time spending playing solo.

In case you're still wondering about "where the lie", well, you just see another one. When I run dungeon, when I raid, when I do trial, when I pvp, when I run fate ... the heck are those if not multiplayer? And you can do all of those when lvling.

- Fate opened at lvl 1.
- Dungeon opened at lvl16.
- Trial at 25.
- PvP unlock at 30.
- Raid at 50 (alliance).

If it is, then we may as well just call Netflix the best MMO. At least Netflix doesn't make me watch all episodes of a show before watching another show, or tell me I need to spend $50 to skip to the next series.

You're basically taking a horse tail and jam it into a dog ass can claim you have an argument. You really don't.

Congratulations.

Seeing I've been playing for 10 years and enjoy it for the most part, your Congratulation is well place and received. Thank you, even though I know you only said it sarcastically.

Between a person who invest time and money to enjoy himself, and a person who invest time and money into something that they don't ... I wonder who is more sane? You claimed that this has been a thing from SB? Well, seeing how the game still manage to keep you here all time despite what you claim, I guess it is doing something right by you despite you don't want to admit it.

Oh, and you want to see another lie?

Are you talking about the fact that XIV is still breathing?

SB was like what, half a decade ago? If you're not lying shouldn't the game be dead and buried by now? Or you gonna claim ShB also had an emergency injection from another game? 5 and half year is a pretty damn long time to stay relevant just by leeching off others. If I'm a betting man, I would dare to place a bet the long term success of FF14 maybe due to standing on its own.

Like I said, stop drump up the echo inside your own head, it ain't gonna bend reality to your will no matter loud you shout.

[Aword3213]

IT IS A LACKLUSTER MMO

I’m sorry, Arbiter of good and evil, but I disagree

We stopped being an MMO in Stormblood, the design philosophy has slowly been creeping into instanced single-player. We're frogs, and we've been successfully boiled. Congratulations.

Congratulations. I like it and I like the direction it is going. It makes me happy, and hopefully, make you stay mad.

[Aurikai]

My advice is to just play DF for awhile, it's actually a pretty good expansion so far, dragon flying is pretty fun, world quests are actually a viable way to gear up, as are events like sieges, primal invasions, cobalt, and rares. I've gotten plenty of Epics from rares during events that higher than Mythic 0. Doing normal/heroic dungeons is not even really necessary now. Evoker is a pretty fun class too. It's entirely possible to do most world content without a group and with either faction due to how tagging works now. I think Blizzard definitely realized they needed to get their game together.

I honestly never thought I'd play WoW again, never played Shadowlands, but EW has been pretty meh for me, since I mostly enjoy alliance raids, and do not care for the new one as compared to Nier, which I played 50+ times each before getting bored. I still think overall FFXIV has a better community, but that only carries you so far. I realize the strength of FFXIV is it has a lot of "side content", however for people who mostly only care about PvE, you're screwed unless you play Savage/Ultimate. Sadly it seems SE wants to make normal content super casual, and leave any difficulty to Savage. Also it seems scaling has really crushed earlier content as they are super easy now, with perhaps Nier being an exception.

[Jojoya]

Where are the lies? I want to discuss - This thread is regarding the 'MMO' portion. Let's talk, you want to talk. You had your chance right here even. We can be civil.

Talking about the MSQ shouldn't even be allowed here. We can all agree it's not even a Multiplayer experience. If it is, then we may as well just call Netflix the best MMO. At least Netflix doesn't make me watch all episodes of a show before watching another show, or tell me I need to spend $50 to skip to the next series.

I can sense your frustration. I think under other circumstances you'd be fairly constructive in a discussion.

But it's not happening here. Your frustration is distorting your responses.

What you might be looking for in a MMO of any type is not what every MMO must be. Few MMOs lack some sort of single player mode. Sometimes players aren't interested in doing things with other players though they still want to play the game. Sometimes they're waiting for friends or family to be able to get online but they want something to do in game that will be meaningful to their character while they're waiting. Game developers have learned that players also need solo content in a MMO to help retain interest.

Just because content can be completed solo doesn't always mean it must be or is even intended to be completed solo. As a good example, Duty support was added for players who feel uncomfortable in group content but it also comes with an attached time penalty because those dungeons and trials are still intended to be done with a group. Contrast that against the solo duties that must be completed solo.

You seem to be stressing yourself out trying to express your frustration over a game. That's not healthy. It's a sign you need to take a step back for a while.

It's your choice but I would suggest taking a few weeks away right now not just from playing FFXIV but from posting in the forums as well. Every time you're tempted to post here, pick up one of your other games you're playing instead. Or pick a new game to try (very easy to do if you have PSN or a Steam account).

Then if you feel like it come back when 6.3 is released. See if the few weeks away have changed anything for you. If your feelings of frustration immediately flare back up again, sounds like a good time for a prolonged break from the game. Other than a house and its contents, everything would still be waiting for you when/if you decide to give the game another try.

No game is worth compromising your health, and allowing stress and frustration to build up is a good way to get sick or trigger more serious medical conditions.

[Aword3213]

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Be the change you want it to be. Make it grow. According to you guys, it has recipe for success.

One day it will be able to dethrone FF14, WOW and many other "MMO" that dare to cater us filthy casuals to prove you right

You are the majority. Have confidence. Unsub XIV. Sign up now and show us how wrong we were.

[moroarda]

We stopped being an MMO in Stormblood, the design philosophy has slowly been creeping into instanced single-player. We're frogs, and we've been successfully boiled. Congratulations.

I don't know how much else of this post I find truly defensible but this bit... I mean, if you're honestly letting yourself be objective there's more than a kernel of truth in here.

XIV hasn't "stopped being an MMO" but something I've always praised about the game is that the group content is necessary, as compared to something like ESO where you can play the entire game as another standalone TES game and hardly ever interact with another player.

I do see this as a negative, if for no other reason than because it will only serve to further the already massive skill gap we see in the playerbase. There are people basically playing this as a visual novel at this point, and the more people who only engage with combat in a very shallow way the more people who get dumped out of the leveling process at 90 who don't understand even basic fundamentals.

Further allowing people to isolate and not receive help and feedback from other players can only be a bad thing, especially when one of the more or less universally recognized faults in XIV is it's incredibly poor (dare I say nonexistant) direction when it comes to how to play jobs properly.

[caffe_macchiato]

We stopped being an MMO in Stormblood, the design philosophy has slowly been creeping into instanced single-player. We're frogs, and we've been successfully boiled. Congratulations.

And this is why many FFXIV players take a break after finishing the story to play other multiplayer games with their friends. A lot of my friends are playing World of Warcraft and Fortnite right now. Among MMOs, we might be #3 or #4, but among online games, we are paltry for that reason.

News of us being “the best MMO right now” have been greatly exaggerated. It’s time for our community to humble itself and come to terms with the truth: FFXIV is a niche product for Final Fantasy fans. The masses who flocked to this game expecting “the next big thing” need to go back to where they came. I sure am. It was fun, but it’s time to move on.

[Deveryn]

I don't know how much else of this post I find truly defensible but this bit... I mean, if you're honestly letting yourself be objective there's more than a kernel of truth in here.

XIV hasn't "stopped being an MMO" but something I've always praised about the game is that the group content is necessary, as compared to something like ESO where you can play the entire game as another standalone TES game and hardly ever interact with another player.

I do see this as a negative, if for no other reason than because it will only serve to further the already massive skill gap we see in the playerbase. There are people basically playing this as a visual novel at this point, and the more people who only engage with combat in a very shallow way the more people who get dumped out of the leveling process at 90 who don't understand even basic fundamentals.

Further allowing people to isolate and not receive help and feedback from other players can only be a bad thing, especially when one of the more or less universally recognized faults in XIV is it's incredibly poor (dare I say nonexistant) direction when it comes to how to play jobs properly.

I disagree. I think the ability to go through the game in a single player mode allows people to take a more calm approach to learning everything, rather than being thrust into dealing with people trying to speed run everything. This is what actually causes the skill gap because people don't talk enough about what's going on. At least with duty support, you can see all the mechanics make more mistakes and learn from them because you're just playing the game, not on a mission to optimize the hell out of a run because someone has to go take a dump.

That aside, it's just nice to be able to take breaks from dealing with people and still progress in the game. It's also nice not to be chained to a group to make progress. If a friend is on a break, I can progress and it's not a big deal to get them caught up when they come back.