keeping pace with savage raid gearing.

[Raoabolic]

I assumed people do savage for the challenge. Getting this stressed over a 25 ilvl difference when you can just buy 610 gear and call it a day is confusing.

[Reinha]

I think OP just hasn't been clearing for many weeks yet and just doesn't want to do the necessary amount of reclears.

I suspect it is the case as well.

A little maths. On week 14 people can have 9 loot items (brine, twine, shine, abyssos gear) from books alone from p5s-p7s. One could have also gotten 2 ultralight tomestones with normal mode raid weapon tokens and also causality tome gear. This is what everyone has access to without any luck involved.

The expected amount of loot drops (ultralight tomestone, brine, twine, shine, abyssos gear) would be
p5s: 14 x 3/8 = 5.25
p6s: 14 x 4/8 = 7
p7s: 14 x 4/8 = 7
total: 19.25 drops on average
total with tokens: 19.25 + 2 + 9 = 30.25 items on average

I have 30 loot items divided between RPR (630), SGE (625) and DNC (625). That is an average amount of loot, so half of the raiders who have been clearing these bosses should have more gear than I do. Yet almost no parties are asking more than 620 item level for savage or criterion, which means I'm more than sufficiently geared on all 3 jobs. Without getting any loot from p8s as well.

To say that it's hard to gear up or play alts is just not true, as long as you keep playing the game instead of quitting when it's quiet. I suspect the latter is why there are so many complaints about gear. They want it instantly, so they can drop their sub and go play another game.

[Aravell]

You guys say OP doesn't raid enough and you guys say you have more than enough loot, well, average for P5, 6 and 7 would be 30 items, yes? I cleared P5, 6 and 7 week 1, cleared P8 week 3, recleared every single week after that without missing once. By the average, I should have more than 30, yes? I have 24 items, that's way below average.

Didn't raid enough? Give me a break. If there's an average, there has to be a below average, but the unlucky people don't matter, yes? You guys got yours.

[DixieBellOCE]

I've always been able to fully gear my main and then get loot for alts, without even taking books into account. I also run an alt that has always got extra loot for no reason since I only play one job on it. I'm one of the last in line for loot when I'm in a static, yet I'm still able to get loot for alts. I think you just need to raid for more weeks.

8 weeks to get BiS from p5-7 felt terrible, i doubt ill ever main healer again for a tier.
I got nothing for the first 7 weeks except book purchases.

I'd be happy with more options to obtain gear outside of the weekly tomestone cap and savage clears. Hell just delete the tome cap after the first 4 weeks when the hardcore players have cleared and let me take budget non-BiS peices just to up my HP to make relcears smoother.

[caffe_macchiato]

Many people have said that FFXIV does not have a treadmill. You can buy gear from the marketboard and clear all savages at ilevel 610. Is that no longer true? One of the many benefits of FFXIV is that there is “no grind” that “forces” you to play, unlike a certain other dragon-themed MMO. Yoshida “respects our time” by limiting drops so that no one is overpowered. You can instead focus your time on social aspects of the game or by playing other games, which many laud as a strong point for FFXIV.

And yet in this thread, I’m hearing that there is, in fact; a treadmill, and you have to clear savage for ALL of your required weeks. Otherwise, the following is said:

I think OP just hasn't been clearing for many weeks yet and just doesn't want to do the necessary amount of reclears.

Why is the OP being blamed for not “grinding” enough? What game is this? I hope other raiders can clear the air.

[Saraide]

Many people have said that FFXIV does not have a treadmill. You can buy gear from the marketboard and clear all savages at ilevel 610. Is that no longer true? One of the many benefits of FFXIV is that there is “no grind” that “forces” you to play, unlike a certain other dragon-themed MMO. Yoshida “respects our time” by limiting drops so that no one is overpowered. You can instead focus your time on social aspects of the game or by playing other games, which many laud as a strong point for FFXIV.

And yet in this thread, I’m hearing that there is, in fact; a treadmill, and you have to clear savage for ALL of your required weeks. Otherwise, the following is said:

Why is the OP being blamed for not “grinding” enough? What game is this? I hope other raiders can clear the air.

I'd be down to loosening the tome cap earlier on, aswell as loosing the weekly loot lockout. By that time the people dedicated to clearing with only crafted gear are done already and everyone else has already gotten some gear anyway.

[Jokerz_93]

Savage loot system is fine the way it is.

Sorry if I ask, but do you really run hardcore endgame contents?
From what I can see, you don't.

Gearing in this game is pointless.
Better do savages for the challenge rather than to obtain a BiS that will be obsolete after 6.4 release.

Also, everyone try to follow me:
Normal Mode vs Savage Mode.

Normal Mode is the easy mode where there is no need to cooperate.
No DPS check, we can only make one healer dps while everyone can /sit and watch.
No Tank responsability. Tanks can pop their stance and /sit with the party while healer do DPS.
We made our Monk tank P5n so not sure if tanks need their stance on.
Healing/mitigations check barely exists. While one healer do DPS the other can throw one heal once per AOE and /sit with others.
And, no mechanics. Just dodge here, dodge there.
At the end of the fight, 8 loots in total and only one per player.

The game is telling "You did well, everyone did well. You all deserve something. Oh, poor child. You didin't take what you wanted? Don't worry. You can leave without any loot and retry it. You are garantee to get something".

Now, savage mode.
DPS check, expecially in week one is tight as fuck (p7s/p8s are good examples). Everyone needs to dps, even healers.
Healings/mitigations check. Everyone needs to help healers during the fight with their: Reprisal/HoL/DM/Shaki/Faint/Addle/Samba/Tactician/Troubadoor (or whatever)/Barrier Magick/etc..
Tanks responsability: if one tank dies, the other one is preatty fucked most of the time and so the party. Buster swaps or share damage, mitigations plans. Move boss correctly (the easy responsability) and so on...
...and ofc the basics: mechanics. If one players dies during a major mechanic...it's wipe. 101 out 10.
Basically Savage mode is the mode where actually all players must to cooperate together to get the kill.
Rewards? One book per kill and 4 (1st/2nd and 3rd floor) and 3 (4th) loots and potentially one player can obtain everything.

So now, what the game is telling to you is: "Yay, you did it! Gratz, here a book! But now since I don't know how to keep you playing I've elaboreted a punitive RNG system only for you, dear PF raider, that will stuck you in the next 4 month with the illusion to get the loot you need, and when you'll get most of it...there will be the new 640 crafted gear and your efforts will be wasted! Happy raiding!"

Yep, defenitly the savage reward system is fine as it is.

[Saraide]

Sorry if I ask, but do you really run hardcore endgame contents?
From what I can see, you don't.

Gearing in this game is pointless.
Better do savages for the challenge rather than to obtain a BiS that will be obsolete after 6.4 release.

Also, everyone try to follow me:
Normal Mode vs Savage Mode.

Normal Mode is the easy mode where there is no need to cooperate.
No DPS check, we can only make one healer dps while everyone can /sit and watch.
No Tank responsability. Tanks can pop their stance and /sit with the party while healer do DPS.
We made our Monk tank P5n so not sure if tanks need their stance on.
Healing/mitigations check barely exists. While one healer do DPS the other can throw one heal once per AOE and /sit with others.
And, no mechanics. Just dodge here, dodge there.
At the end of the fight, 8 loots in total and only one per player.

The game is telling "You did well, everyone did well. You all deserve something. Oh, poor child. You didin't take what you wanted? Don't worry. You can leave without any loot and retry it. You are garantee to get something".

Now, savage mode.
DPS check, expecially in week one is tight as fuck (p7s/p8s are good examples). Everyone needs to dps, even healers.
Healings/mitigations check. Everyone needs to help healers during the fight with their: Reprisal/HoL/DM/Shaki/Faint/Addle/Samba/Tactician/Troubadoor (or whatever)/Barrier Magick/etc..
Tanks responsability: if one tank dies, the other one is preatty fucked most of the time and so the party. Buster swaps or share damage, mitigations plans. Move boss correctly (the easy responsability) and so on...
...and ofc the basics: mechanics. If one players dies during a major mechanic...it's wipe. 101 out 10.
Basically Savage mode is the mode where actually all players must to cooperate together to get the kill.
Rewards? One book per kill and 4 (1st/2nd and 3rd floor) and 3 (4th) loots and potentially one player can obtain everything.

So now, what the game is telling to you is: "Yay, you did it! Gratz, here a book! But now since I don't know how to keep you playing I've elaboreted a punitive RNG system only for you, dear PF raider, that will stuck you in the next 4 month with the illusion to get the loot you need, and when you'll get most of it...there will be the new 640 crafted gear and your efforts will be wasted! Happy raiding!"

Yep, defenitly the savage reward system is fine as it is.

There are two aspects at play here. One is longevity of content, SE doesnt want everyone to burn through the tier in a week and leave people coming in late in the dust. The other one getting raiders to stay subbed and spend money. These two aspects can not be seperated easily.

[Liam_Harper]

I assumed people do savage for the challenge. Getting this stressed over a 25 ilvl difference when you can just buy 610 gear and call it a day is confusing.

You do first clears for the challenge.

Doing 10th reclears on a fight you know to death is usually for farming gear, testing new jobs or improving personal logs. (Yes, we can pretend logs are evil but they're actually a big reason Savage doesn't just die a month in). There's no challenge in bringing in your 610ilv alt for a free carry in a group of 630 mains and doing pitiful dps. Nor is it much fun.

There's no "stress" over it really. It's just not fun so people are giving feedback that it sucks. Let us BiS gear alts for a change of pace and we'll play the content for even longer. It's a mutually beneficial deal.

[Reinha]

And yet in this thread, I’m hearing that there is, in fact; a treadmill, and you have to clear savage for ALL of your required weeks.

You don't have to clear savage every week to play the game and participate in endgame. There are long term grinds available, but all they offer are cosmetic and meaningless rewards, which BiS gear for alts falls under.