Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Deceptus]

Sometimes I fire off Pneuma just to see the GIANT LAZOR animation.
Just to remember that it's there...

Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

[HyperiusUltima]

Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

Oh yeah. Explosions go BRRR in the way Misery does. The question though is how long have we been in this echo chamber for? 9 Months. 9 Months worth of feedback and annoyance from healers. 9 Months of echoing the same issues since Yoshida actually said the wrong thing to healers. What's worse is that they've still yet to come to terms about it, and haven't done crap. How long do we have to keep yelling on the Forums before we actually get some damn change?

We've been complaining about it since Shadowbringers. They brushed us off by ignoring Healer Questions. Then, in this expac, they tell us to go play Ultimate - the very purpose of this thread to highlight the issue that enflamed the healer community. Why is it so difficult to listen to healers concerns? Is it because you're worried about speaking about a job at length during a live stream to thousands of viewers who are watching, potentially healers and players? Are you worried about backlash(which mind you, this backlash has been left and right this expansion with Healers) and saying the wrong thing again like you did? People are going to get tired of complaining eventually because at some point, people will just stop playing Healer altogether for some reason or another, citing various reasons that have been explained throughout this thread.

- "It's boring."
- "There's nothing to heal and I'm tired of pressing the same button."
- "It's not fun compared to the other roles."

Just to note a few responses I've gotten in the past month when I've asked about healers to friends and raid mates. I don't know how it's perceived on the JP side or EU side, but I'm considering going to stare at it so I can understand their viewpoint as well for a larger world view; especially since changes affect everyone who plays. Because here in NA, Healer input doesn't mean crap.

While I have been defeatist for the majority of my rant, I will say this: Continue to hold the discussion and keep the thread active. It took DRK about 6 F***ING YEARS to finally have its issues addressed - I hope to god we don't have to wait that long for healers. All we can do is keep the pressure on them and keep the thread going for as long as it takes with constructive feedback.

Hell, if they'd be bothered to I'd like it if they could actually allow a real Healer Main in the influencers since apparently that's part of who they only listen to.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

I keep all effects on all the time for everyone...

Helps keep your eyes sharp to catch details. Especially when doing 24 player raids, super fates, and the eureka/bozja stuff when it was new...

[Renalt]

I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

Don't bother with FireMage. You're playing chess and he replaced his pieces with checkers pieces. He is also a pigeon who structs on the board, casually knocks over your king even though he isn't playing, craps on the board, then claims he is a chess master.

[Ivtrix]

I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

The only 2 reasons to clear a savage tier on content:

1) clearing it because its the peak of your gameplay

2) we fuckin doin some ultimate

if you dont care about either, theres no need to worry about clear on content

[FireMage]

Don't bother with FireMage. You're playing chess and he replaced his pieces with checkers pieces. He is also a pigeon who structs on the board, casually knocks over your king even though he isn't playing, craps on the board, then claims he is a chess master.

Oh look, another player that can't do high end content and thus has no place in this topic. Dismissed

[HyperiusUltima]

The only 2 reasons to clear a savage tier on content:

1) clearing it because its the peak of your gameplay

2) we fuckin doin some ultimate

if you dont care about either, theres no need to worry about clear on content

There's more than 2 reasons to clear a Savage Tier. I had a person in my static who literally did it on content for the Fending Coat that dropped from E12S; that we worked hard for. People have all sorts of reasons for doing Savage, even if it's for glamour, to prove themselves, or simply experience it.

[Axxion]

here is the thing i notice about the aoe argument back in hw you had the following

whm asize, holy and aero 3 , sch had bane ,shadow flare ,miasma 2 and ast just had gravity. At the time whm and sch had more things to work with that made more interesting during mobs

during single encounters whm had access to all the aeros and asize while as sch had shadow flare, bio miasma 1 & 2 and aero 1.

during those you had to maintain 3 dots respectfully now as the current state of healing you have one dot for all healers & one main attack , sch and whm lost there aoe dots (they could had just made it into a trait to where as glare could had been a aoe dot next to the holy spam or made miasma spread when using the art of war or something or do how the pvp works but thats not going to happen).

The fact that you just spam one attack even in normal content its just meh spamming one aoe is just meh.

I do understand that people like this version of healing, but however those said people either delete there posts because they dont have enough experience or they cant take the criticism

[Ivtrix]

There's more than 2 reasons to clear a Savage Tier. I had a person in my static who literally did it on content for the Fending Coat that dropped from E12S; that we worked hard for. People have all sorts of reasons for doing Savage, even if it's for glamour, to prove themselves, or simply experience it.

The number of people outside of those two catagories are so few i could consider them exceptionally niche

they exist, but i think that 95% of the playerbase engaging with savage are in it for the two reasons i listed

[Midareyukki]

during single encounters whm had access to all the aeros and asize while as sch had shadow flare, bio miasma 1 & 2 and aero 1.

And back then, we were fine. We had Miasma 1, Miasma 2, we had Shadowflare, aero if required and we had two fairies.

I won't say it wasn't clunky. It for sure required some attention. But holy hell, there was far more to do on healers than just healing. We contributed, we had utility... And I know what many people here say. "If you wanted something more than healing on a healer, go play a DPS". But those are the people who need to take a hard look at FF14's design. I wouldn't mind a pure healer with virtually no DPS whatsoever... if healing was at all this required.

It isn't. Even on Ultimates the goal of healers, apart from keeping people alive, is to find a way to minimize how much healing you will throw out. And even when it is, healing in this game is ludicrously generic. Meaning either way people are going to be bored.

We did fine when we had more things to do and take care of. A lot of the issues came from really awkward design and the poor paradigm we had before. Again, it was clunky. imo as cool as Cleric Stance used to be, it is the quintessential representation of the problem the old system had. That it was awkward and you lost massively in having healers needing to choose between DPS and Healing.

Healing is the primary focus of the role. More than any other role (yes tanks, even you, what WAR can do in dungeons should not be a thing). But that doesn't mean it has to be the only thing the jobs in the role have to do. It's fine to have utility, it's fine to deal damage. As long as it doesn't get in the way of healing, it is fine. And as it stands, we have so many healing skills and far too little else to the point where the healing aspect of healers is so dominant. So dominant, in fact, most skills are either repetitive, recycled or become unnecessary.

Meaning there's far too much focus on the healing aspect. Even reiterating that that's what the role is meant to do. Because there's too much focus on it when we have skills that suffice to satisfy the requirement. And the overdone focus on it causes button bloat and monotony even among healing skills.

What healers need isn't just "more to do outside of healing". It can be support, it can be DPS. But I'd argue that we also need some out-of-the-box design. And this one is going to be a personal comment, but while SCH, SGE and WHM have one or two skills that are clevery made, I feel like AST is the one who has the most interestingly-designed skills... issue is, on AST I also feel like there's far too much. It's cool to have nuance and cleverness, but what good is it when the kit is only fully used in 1% of content?

Soo... yeah. For people who clutch their pearls at the thought of "more to healers", we dealt with it just fine back then. And the issues that once plagued us not only no longer exist, but also don't need to exist any further. The dev team has evolved past those and learned. Meaning it's 100% possible to have that nuance and that "more to do" that we had in the current system. And boy do we need it.

Otherwise, what? We're going to get another regurgitated Cure 2 variant for lv 100? Thrilling.

The game doesn't have anything that needs a "Mini Healer" clone where you do nothing but healing. But even Mini Healer had fun healing skills in comparison to 14.