Turn on Demolish for Housing and fix housing please.

[UkcsAlias]

I'm not actually sure it would help a lot. In fact, I don't think it would free up a single house.

It doesnt have to. But it solves the FC ward issue.

Now for FCs the FC wards were used to guarantee a house. Which is required for that workshop. But if the workshop is removed from those houses and put at the FC itself. A house isnt required. Which means that FC houses can become part of the individual house market, with equaly bad odds of obtaining a house. To balance it out further, they could even decide that FC bidding can only be done by the leader (or limit that bidding in some other way to avoid an FC spamming bids on for example a large/medium house - which are already have enough competition as it is).

Thats what it can help. And sure, if they have a house, they can make the workshop accessible from both.

[Shibi]

It doesnt have to. But it solves the FC ward issue.

Now for FCs the FC wards were used to guarantee a house. Which is required for that workshop. But if the workshop is removed from those houses and put at the FC itself. A house isnt required. Which means that FC houses can become part of the individual house market, with equaly bad odds of obtaining a house. To balance it out further, they could even decide that FC bidding can only be done by the leader (or limit that bidding in some other way to avoid an FC spamming bids on for example a large/medium house - which are already have enough competition as it is).

Thats what it can help. And sure, if they have a house, they can make the workshop accessible from both.

No, it doesn't "solve" the FC ward issue. That's a different kettle of fish.

It's clear in Yoshi's mind that housing is primary for FCs and secondary to personal. Evidence for this is that it was originally FC only, only releasing to people later. Further evidence for this is that they brought in the 50/50 split for the start of lottery and have maintained a smaller one since.

It does seem that this split will remain, that Yoshi really desires FCs to be able to get housing so they can grow their community. And due to that I really doubt we will ever see the removal of FC only wards.

Now;

Consider that moving subs to a door in the home state main city doesn't impact genuine FCs, these usually desire an estate to set up and be a centre for FC activities. Moving subs to city won't change that. And genuine FCs are by far the main use. The housing surveys prove that.

And as far as Multiple Sub Pens, doing this would make it absolutely easier for everyone to get 8 sub pens up per account. No limits of getting the house first. Do we want that?

Hmm, actually, saying that - bring it on! It would allow effortless forming of 8 sub farms on every single server for this account! (mind you the subsequent grinding would send me to an early grave, heh)

[Jojoya]

No, it doesn't "solve" the FC ward issue. That's a different kettle of fish.

It's clear in Yoshi's mind that housing is primary for FCs and secondary to personal. Evidence for this is that it was originally FC only, only releasing to people later. Further evidence for this is that they brought in the 50/50 split for the start of lottery and have maintained a smaller one since.

It does seem that this split will remain, that Yoshi really desires FCs to be able to get housing so they can grow their community. And due to that I really doubt we will ever see the removal of FC only wards.

Now;

Consider that moving subs to a door in the home state main city doesn't impact genuine FCs, these usually desire an estate to set up and be a centre for FC activities. Moving subs to city won't change that. And genuine FCs are by far the main use. The housing surveys prove that.

And as far as Multiple Sub Pens, doing this would make it absolutely easier for everyone to get 8 sub pens up per account. No limits of getting the house first. Do we want that?

Hmm, actually, saying that - bring it on! It would allow effortless forming of 8 sub farms on every single server for this account! (mind you the subsequent grinding would send me to an early grave, heh)

I doubt that having a FC house does all that much for growing FC communities when the house and its features tends to end up the plaything of the officers.

It would be interesting to poll players to get responses to the following:

In order of importance, what were the top 3 reasons you joined your FC.
In order of importance, what are the top 3 reasons you stay in your FC.
In order of importance, what were the top 3 reasons you left FCs you previously had joined.

I bet a majority of respondents wouldn't list the FC house as a reason for any of those, and that of those who do it would mostly be mentioned under 1 or 3, not 2.

YoshiP's intent matters little when the player base clearly feels differently. There comes a point when developers have to say "After several years of access, the players aren't engaging with this content in the way we intended. What changes are needed to make the content a better part of the player's game experience to increase player satisfaction and customer loyalty?"

That said, I expect some wards to be reserved for FCs only because FC only content is gated by ownership of a house. Can't have the workshop without a FC house. Can't get Grade 3 FC actions without a FC house. Unless SE gives FCs a different point of access for those things, plots will need to be reserved for FC purchase. And that of course opens the door to those who want more of a solo player experience to set up the shell FCs to get a house for personal use.

[Shibi]

I doubt that having a FC house does all that much for growing FC communities when the house and its features tends to end up the plaything of the officers.

Not sure Jojo, maybe your experience just hasn't been great?

I know back in the dim dark past when I was in someone elses FC the house was very important for us. We gathered there and were all great friends.

Our own genuine FC house is very important to us (and we worked very hard for that), and opposite us are a very friendly raiding FC who pop up for expansions, and all seem to gather in the plaza area between us.

I've also seen a lot of fresh genuine FCs who advertise in their ads they are grinding towards a house.

Just because one doesn't notice one's FC neighbors when you run from your gate to the front door, doesn't mean they are not there.


I do consider that no matter what we believe though, SE sees them as important and will retain the split. And that of course - going back to the original point of the discussion - still adds evidence to me that a FC door inside the citystate won't free up houses.

[Jojoya]

Not sure Jojo, maybe your experience just hasn't been great?

I know back in the dim dark past when I was in someone elses FC the house was very important for us. We gathered there and were all great friends.

Our own genuine FC house is very important to us (and we worked very hard for that), and opposite us are a very friendly raiding FC who pop up for expansions, and all seem to gather in the plaza area between us.

I've also seen a lot of fresh genuine FCs who advertise in their ads they are grinding towards a house.

Just because one doesn't notice one's FC neighbors when you run from your gate to the front door, doesn't mean they are not there.


I do consider that no matter what we believe though, SE sees them as important and will retain the split. And that of course - going back to the original point of the discussion - still adds evidence to me that a FC door inside the citystate won't free up houses.

I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

My own experience is that the FCs I've been in wouldn't have been any less social in the absence of a FC house. One of the FCs I was in actually spent a fair amount of time hanging around the outside of the Thaumaturge's Guild together even though we could have done it at the FC house. It's the members that create and grow the community, not the house.

The experience you shared has a factor that I think a lot of FCs these days don't have - you worked together to be able to get the house. How many FCs truly work together to do that as opposed to just one or two members footing the entire bill to purchase the plot? How many players never had to sit through the wait to get a house because the FC already had one at the time they joined?

I see FC advertise their recruitment AND mentioning a house as well but how many will end up joining those FCs because of the house? How many of those players discover the FC chat is quiet and people don't do anything together? That the house just kind of sits there unused because only the officers have permissions to decorate, garden, etc.?

Some FCs are good. Some aren't. If the FC is good then great. But as I said above, it's not going to be a house that turn a fair to bad FC into a good one,

I agree that regardless of reasons, the ward split is here to stay.

When it comes to the effectiveness of giving workshops an access point at the Grand Companies or other location, I think it would make a small difference though probably not as large as some might hope. Any house going to a player or FC that actually wants the house itself instead of just wanting access to another workshop is a plus.

[Shibi]

I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

I really don't think it matters to the question at hand. I still doubt many FCs would give up their home for a submarine hole in the wall. That's the be-all and end-all of my point.

[LianaThorne]

I doubt don't that a FC house is important to some players and FCs. I do question how important one is to all players and FCs.

My own experience is that the FCs I've been in wouldn't have been any less social in the absence of a FC house. One of the FCs I was in actually spent a fair amount of time hanging around the outside of the Thaumaturge's Guild together even though we could have done it at the FC house. It's the members that create and grow the community, not the house.

The experience you shared has a factor that I think a lot of FCs these days don't have - you worked together to be able to get the house. How many FCs truly work together to do that as opposed to just one or two members footing the entire bill to purchase the plot? How many players never had to sit through the wait to get a house because the FC already had one at the time they joined?

I see FC advertise their recruitment AND mentioning a house as well but how many will end up joining those FCs because of the house? How many of those players discover the FC chat is quiet and people don't do anything together? That the house just kind of sits there unused because only the officers have permissions to decorate, garden, etc.?

Some FCs are good. Some aren't. If the FC is good then great. But as I said above, it's not going to be a house that turn a fair to bad FC into a good one,

I agree that regardless of reasons, the ward split is here to stay.

When it comes to the effectiveness of giving workshops an access point at the Grand Companies or other location, I think it would make a small difference though probably not as large as some might hope. Any house going to a player or FC that actually wants the house itself instead of just wanting access to another workshop is a plus.

Owning a house is usually incentive for new members to join, compared to not. As much as the social aspect is the point of being in an FC (even though theres been a rise in people wishing for a single player experience), the house provides extras that you can't get anywhere else. Personally all of the FCs I've been in, including my own, have held events at the FC house rather than out in the world and it's been used as the primary hangout spot.

To put it bluntly, it shows that the FC has more to offer than one that doesn't. That's why people list it in their ad on the PF.

Side note: Not all FCs gatekeep the workshop and such from members. One in particular had a great system where you'd sign up for a "workshop group" and be given a special rank to access it. My own I let people do whatever they want in there lol, no skin off my bones if someone wants to craft something to sell.