Tales from the Dawn #3: "A Question of Life" (Hermes)

[Brinne]

So once again this would mean the writers wrote the protagonists to be incorrect, and then from incorrect premises stumble on the right conclusion about Emet and the Ascians plan. If you want to hold that ShB's climax is founded on this idea then sure, but I don't think this is logical to presume. If however that's ok with others then I think thats a perfectly consistent position to take and have nothing to say but "agree to disagree" for now. But again I hope its understandable why I'm more skeptical of this position.

No, because the protagonists never make any comment or speculation upon the original, non-Ascian plan to begin with. They only speculate on the implications this has to the current, Ascian plan, as that's the only one that has any relevance to them. They say absolutely nothing about "oh, the Ascians/Ancients were Like This, even before the Final Days and Zodiark!" All they say is, "this probably implies the Ascians won't stop even after the Rejoinings."

But those wouldn't be the ones Emets sacrificing. The calamities and the natural lifespan of the Sundered would ensure that, a fact he was aware of and used as an argument to convince us to join him. He'd be being spiteful against random people. I have a sour opinion of the Ascians for sure, but this defies even the logic that I as a "hater" disagree with.

See, and I'm an Ascian lover, and I have no problem believing this given the psychological and emotional state the Ascians are in in the present day. All of Sundered life, to the Ascian perspective--Emet-Selch's perspective that he's fervently trying to persuade himself of--are "perverted distortions" of the authentic life unjustly stolen, who have lived on the erased corpses, sacrifices, and history of what he himself refers to as "the first people," and ones furthermore embraced by Hydaelyn as "her children." I, as someone who is sometimes capable of a fair amount of Spite myself (shocking, I know!) don't find it a large leap at all to see someone in Emet's position going "Hydaelyn's children? Hahaha, more like Zodiark's dinner, losers!"

Obviously, this is not morally right or fair by any stretch of the imagination. But in terms of raw human emotion? Yeah, I don't have difficulty "getting it," so to speak.

I refuse to believe the Ancients were willing to shove random souls into their ultimate creation. We know those souls would have some sway over the heart, per Elidibus, and I don't believe they would play fast and loose with their savior.

They wouldn't be "shoving random souls" in. Under this idea, they'd evaluate more closely once those souls had properly developed over a period of generations, being nurtured by the survivors, when the planet was bursting with vitality. They're not arbitrarily throwing darts at a board or anything. It's just that, now that we have more understanding of the workings and limitations of the Ancients' magic, they probably literally had no way of knowing exactly how those sprouts of life would develop until they were done developing. I would presume that there would be less trouble "controlling" the souls within Zodiark as the heart were they less intelligent and sapient.

[EaraGrace]

No, because the protagonists never make any comment or speculation upon the original, non-Ascian plan to begin with. They only speculate on the implications this has to the current, Ascian plan, as that's the only one that has any relevance to them. They say absolutely nothing about "oh, the Ascians/Ancients were Like This, even before the Final Days and Zodiark!" All they say is, "this probably implies the Ascians won't stop even after the Rejoinings."

What would imply that? Thats the core of the question I'm asking. The Scions conclude this because of something we told them. What was it and why do the writers believe it to be enough for the Scions conclude the Ascians would sacrifice the Source. The writers had them conclude that for a reason.

See, and I'm an Ascian lover, and I have no problem believing this given the psychological and emotional state the Ascians are in in the present day. All of Sundered life, to the Ascian perspective--Emet-Selch's perspective that he's fervently trying to persuade himself of--are "perverted distortions" of the authentic life unjustly stolen, who have lived on the erased corpses, sacrifices, and history of what he himself refers to as "the first people," and ones furthermore embraced by Hydaelyn as "her children." I, as someone who is sometimes capable of a fair amount of Spite myself (shocking, I know!) don't find it a large leap at all to see someone in Emet's position going "Hydaelyn's children? Hahaha, more like Zodiark's dinner, losers!"

They wouldn't be her children anymore though. They would be Ancients, full and true. Every justification Emet used for what he did against the Sundered would be moot. Even he would not do so out of spite, when he's already clearly struggling to justify his actions so far.

They wouldn't be "shoving random souls" in. Under this idea, they'd evaluate more closely once those souls had properly developed over a period of generations, being nurtured by the survivors, when the planet was bursting with vitality. They're not arbitrarily throwing darts at a board or anything. It's just that, now that we have more understanding of the workings and limitations of the Ancients' magic, they probably literally had no way of knowing exactly how those sprouts of life would develop until they were done developing. I would presume that there would be less trouble "controlling" the souls within Zodiark as the heart were they less intelligent and sapient.

Yet we see in Pandaemonium that merging animals to Ancients has consequences. Pretty much every boss in that place merged with a random creation, and was irrevocably changed from it. I can't imagine Zodiark not being changed by having Lykaon or Behemoth souls.