Ruining your Job to make it more desirable: Paladin Edition

[Rithy255]

I think one of the largest issues with Paladin is the rigid rotation that is blatantly flat. There is not a single unload phase in it like a GNB DRK or War. Each of these have a build up of some sort to unleash damage. Paladin is just a flat damage line. I think a simple played out version would be a OGCD 3 stack confiter spell to use... say.. ever 2 minutes? Or a GNB continuation to attonement. Atonement -> Confiter x3. This boosts burst phases and allows a mixture of sword and spell combo.

However in my opinion the biggest let down is the only guy with a shield is the worst at mitigating damage. The half white mage is also not the best healer (self). The one with the most supposed utility really isnt. But yet all these weaknesses and we are not even close to anything for damage wise.

I don't think paladin is that bad at mitigating damage, at least arguably better then warrior at raw mitigation both have similar less mitigations in trade for self sustain, I feel the biggest problem with Paladin is that a lot of its self healing isn't up to the Paladin it's just on Req, which is pretty bad for raids, not saying the req healing you get isn't powerful but having no control of it means it gets wasted in a lot of situations.

Shelltron Should become a 20% damage reduction instead of a block could also target a party member, Oath shouldn't be based on auto attacks, a Timer around 45 seconds to fill to 100, while in combat would be much better for PLD to regen its mitigations during down time). I wouldn't mind seeing Paladin given another personal but generally I would rather A lot of req's sustain be moved onto a stronger regen effect on holy shelltron so that Paladins have more control when they regen.

Things Like Clemency should generally stay as it is, it being a GCD spell gives Paladin a choice in situations where healers are struggling or you got none, It gives Paladin the Opportunity to work as a backup healer, Instead you could argue that giving Paladin a separate Heal as a OGCD could help self sustain and party sustain, Gunbreaker gets a regen I don't see why it would really break the game if paladin had something similar outside its short cd and self healing (if plds holy spirit/blades phase didn't heal as much) I dont really see the problem with it, Things such as Shield Bash and Intervention, could be removed to get rid of some bloat on paladin to make up for a extra ability (IF holy shelltron was targetable)

We should keep in mind that implementing too much would overtune Paladin defensively, that could be balanced by having PLD have slightly less dps (Not by a lot, Paladin currently doesn't do enough by large amount). I want the Job to feel like the Holy Knight, with white magic abilities. Obviously we should be looking to balance any of these suggested changes I really don't want a situation where Paladin outclasses all the other tanks defensively.

[Curisu]

PLD and WAR just need a DMG buff.
The low participation come from the extreme high difference in dmg compared to GNB and DRK.
Give PLD and WAR 100-200dps more and they become viable in week one again.

He is good defensive wise and does not need any "changes".

[Oizen]

PLD and WAR just need a DMG buff.
The low participation come from the extreme high difference in dmg compared to GNB and DRK.
Give PLD and WAR 300-400dps more and they become viable in week one again.

He is good defensive wise and does not need any "changes".

Issue I see with that is WAR with damage on the level of GNB or DRK is inherently OP due to how many defensives WAR has that are already the best in the game.
And if its even slightly less than GNB or DRK then people will still complain that their tank job isn't doing as much damage.


We could just homogenize everything, but then thats its own issue

[Deole]

Agreed. People look at their personal damage not what it does over all. With increased self sustain you lose dps. But this should allow your healer to increase dps. Just a thought. If everyone demands all jobs have same performance in all areas we could simplify the game. Delete all jobs make 5 new ones. Tank, healer, melee dps, ranged dps, magical dps. People today are like but my BRD doesn’t have the damage out out of SAM not fair!!! Only one I feel should be complaining is MCH. Lack of raid support without the damage boost.

[Curisu]

Issue I see with that is WAR with damage on the level of GNB or DRK is inherently OP due to how many defensives WAR has that are already the best in the game.
And if its even slightly less than GNB or DRK then people will still complain that their tank job isn't doing as much damage.


We could just homogenize everything, but then thats its own issue

Just checked my excel sheet numbers again and I will edit my post to reduce the numbers.
Both are just approximately 100-200dps away from GNB and DRK.
But still, the difference is to unbalanced and both needed more dmg to be competitive for week 1.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Agreed. People look at their personal damage not what it does over all. With increased self sustain you lose dps. But this should allow your healer to increase dps. Just a thought. If everyone demands all jobs have same performance in all areas we could simplify the game. Delete all jobs make 5 new ones. Tank, healer, melee dps, ranged dps, magical dps. People today are like but my BRD doesn’t have the damage out out of SAM not fair!!! Only one I feel should be complaining is MCH. Lack of raid support without the damage boost.

Sorry but this is complete and utter drivel. Self sustain as well as the defensive kit, should never ever ever ever dictate a tanks output, because if so Paladin should be destroying all the other tanks in DPS right now, but it's not it's at the bottom by a larger margin in aDPS, the metric that better represents tank damage. Also comparing a BRD to a SAM for damage has to be the most hyperbolic example possible, but BRD could do with a little bump, to be closer to DNC, but of course, I think the entire community can agree MCH definitely needs a buff.

Overall, I do genuinely believe all tanks should output the same amount of damage, and you bring the tank that you prefer to play in playstyle not get shoehorned into another one because the "extra defensive" for less damage ain't worth the damage sacrifice, and it's a joke to think otherwise.

[Deole]

Well why doesn’t RDM hit as hard as BLM? Raid utility Yea? And from what I hear RDM is struggling at door boss. Does that mean bump their damage up? Seems every job has their day. And well it’s not PLDs. Not everyone can be an Astronaut. It’s a can of worms. If u increase war and pld damage does that mean DRK and gnb get more self sustain? Healers have gotten lazy due to war self sustain in dungeons. It’s ridiculous. I want DRK to have that kind of self sustain. It’s only fair!!! Jokes aside. Everything is fine. I don’t want anything for DRK. It’s fine how it is. Meh. If SE feels war and pld aren’t up to par they will adjust. If not. Well they are probably right. People tend to say “WHAT IS SE THINKING” Then later realize oh. Yea that works. Drop of endwalker everyone was complaining how DRK got cheated. Crap for new abilities. Linking CnS to abyssal drain. Etc etc. when every other tank got massive boost. And when people complained. SE said nope it’s fine. Now people are complaining their job doesn’t perform as well as DRK. Time will tell.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Well why doesn’t RDM hit as hard as BLM? Raid utility Yea? And from what I hear RDM is struggling at door boss. Does that mean bump their damage up? Seems every job has their day. And well it’s not PLDs. Not everyone can be an Astronaut. It’s a can of worms. If u increase war and pld damage does that mean DRK and gnb get more self sustain? Healers have gotten lazy due to war self sustain in dungeons. It’s ridiculous. I want DRK to have that kind of self sustain. It’s only fair!!! Jokes aside. Everything is fine. I don’t want anything for DRK. It’s fine how it is. Meh. If SE feels war and pld aren’t up to par they will adjust. If not. Well they are probably right. People tend to say “WHAT IS SE THINKING” Then later realize oh. Yea that works. Drop of endwalker everyone was complaining how DRK got cheated. Crap for new abilities. Linking CnS to abyssal drain. Etc etc. when every other tank got massive boost. And when people complained. SE said nope it’s fine. Now people are complaining their job doesn’t perform as well as DRK. Time will tell.

oh wow didn't think your last bad take could get any worse, but guess I was wrong about that one. Honestly I do think RDM and SMN should be closer to BLM, while BLM's higher skill ceiling should put it ahead of them. But, Tanks have about as equal a utility amongst themselves so your point is completely moot and irrelevant.

DRK and GNB don't need more self sustain, since they have more damage reduction. As it is, PLD's self sustain isn't even on demand, it just when it comes up in it's rotation, GNB has better on-demand self-sustain than PLD does, the only thing that PLD has is Holy Sheltron for on-demand self-sustain. PLD also has the least amount of personal mitigation cooldowns, out of all four tanks, so yes at present it very much is a “WHAT IS SE THINKING”. When the simple fact that ShB tank balanced existed not too long ago, there is no excuse for tanks to not be a hell of a lot closer than they are now in DPS output.

"Seems every job has their day. And well it’s not PLDs. Not everyone can be an Astronaut. It’s a can of worms." - this is a complete and utter contradiction to SE's own words of any job and any comp can clear the content, but that wasn't the case with every job on an equal footing now was it mate.

And as far as the DRK playerbase, they'll never be happy unless DRK goes back to HW, anything else is going to be a cryfest in the forums, to the point I just ignore it, otherwise it's going to be eyeroll inducing.

[Dzian]

Overall, I do genuinely believe all tanks should output the same amount of damage, and you bring the tank that you prefer to play in playstyle not get shoehorned into another one because the "extra defensive" for less damage ain't worth the damage sacrifice, and it's a joke to think otherwise.

If you genuinely think tanks should function like that then you absolutely have to apply that exact same logic to every single job. In which case...

Also comparing a BRD to a SAM for damage has to be the most hyperbolic example possible, .

BRD, SAM and absolutely every other DPS should output the exact same damage. and then..

all tanks DPS should output the same amount of damage, and you bring the tank DPS that you prefer to play in playstyle not get shoehorned into another one

Ridiculous.. every job including tanks should play differently and have strengths and weaknesses

[RyuDragnier]

Issue I see with that is WAR with damage on the level of GNB or DRK is inherently OP due to how many defensives WAR has that are already the best in the game.
And if its even slightly less than GNB or DRK then people will still complain that their tank job isn't doing as much damage.

We could give WAR and PLD more damage, but we'd have to be nerfing something in exchange. For WAR, that isn't that hard due to their plentiful amount of self-sustain, as they could lose a little of it (like dropping Bloodwhetting from 400 cure potency to 300 cure potency) to make up for the damage gain. PLD...I'm not sure what they COULD nerf for that.