OK, I gotta vent. Are people stupid or... Stupid?

[Klive]

I love it when people undercut below the NPC buy-back price. Derp. Thanks for paying me to buy your stuff.

I forgot to mention that. Since I have a stock pile of gil, I will buy out someone who undercuts me by a large margin and sell it for profit. I've done it a few time. Nothing better than buying a 50k item for 30k and making 20k profit for doing nothing.

[Mireille]

EDIT: THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE CURRENT SITUATION. NOT WHEN PATCH 1.21 FIRST CAME OUT.

I keep getting the notion that since I'm a GSM50 that I make tons of money, and let me tell you... NO I'M NOT. You want to know why?

I wouldn't expect a lot with gold at this stage. Wait till the higher level materials come out.

With leather and weaver I can get a 10x return on my gil investment in materials once all my stuff sells. Gold will be great gil at some point, but we are a long way from that point. Expect gold to start taking off around the platinum stage.

What this game does lack that XI had at this level range were enchanted jewelry items like re-raise earings, and there isn't a large variety of crafted jewelry yet. That limits goldsmithings usefulness at this stage. Once we get some real content updates we will have a greater variety of gear to make and a larger need for situational items that enhance certain job abilities. This sort of stuff will be the goldsmiths forte.

In XIV you could hypothetically have a raid that requires people to set different jobs in order to overcome challenges as you progress through each tier. Each boss may require situational gear like an earring that enhances resist sleep, or gives fire resistance.

Goldsmithings niche is supposed to be a craft that enhances items, by adding decoration to them. Not much has happened with that yet, but if they develop that aspect of the craft at some point then at the higher levels the items it makes will be in high demand.

Finally with an average of 300 people on each server it doesn't take long to satisfy all the demand there is for most goods. Items drop in price pretty quickly. The server system was intended to host 6000 - 9000 people logged in at once. Right now on Mysidia there are 366 people logged in. In the long run the merger will help with this, but in the short term don't expect demand to rise sharply because every server is in the same boat right now.

[Conradus]

I forgot to mention that. Since I have a stock pile of gil, I will buy out someone who undercuts me by a large margin and sell it for profit. I've done it a few time. Nothing better than buying a 50k item for 30k and making 20k profit for doing nothing.

This. If the stupid undercutting is truly stupid undercutting, this is the proper reply to it.

[RinMorikaze]

I can't see the words due to the size of your attitude ..

The way I see it, crafting is for myself, to make items for me and my linkshell etc, do repairs.

When I want to make money I go out and gather.

You don't make me anything! *tear*

[Agoven]

Who need to make money? Gil is worthless...and gil can be wrought in other fashion...easier and faster.

[Cynthis]

I don't bother with the market at all for several reasons that I think also explains the problems mentioned here. Why are mats so expensive? Because people use them to grind. I am L48 miner and have mined tons of electrum for instance but most of that was used to turn into nuggets which then became rings that I NPC:d so that I could level GSM. Now that you can get a lot more EXP per synth I can see the prices of mats dropping over time since less of the mats are required for grinding...of course, it might also mean people mine less.

Why do people undercut? Again, because they grind. There is limited inventory space, the finsihed items don't stack and you can only sell 10 items at a time. I've made between 100 and 200 of the electrum rings and given most of them away to people in my LS. If I hadn't done that and wanted to level, I would have been able to make at most 40 rings since that is how much inventory space I have at most, then I would have to wait for those to sell and make a few more every day perhaps as they sell. At that rate I would be L50 GSM in 2017. So if I want to level and not NPC the mats or wait to turn them into materia and have no one to give them to, my only logical option is to sell them in the wards so cheap that they sell quickly. Now, if I could buy 10 extra retainers and put up unlimited amount of goods for sale, it would be a different story. Then I would play the markets but for now I prefer to just grind and make a little money.

Of course, when I reach L50 I might be tempted to work the markets for gil as well but then others will just undercut me and I will understand why...

[TirionCrey]

EDIT: THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE CURRENT SITUATION. NOT WHEN PATCH 1.21 FIRST CAME OUT.

I keep getting the notion that since I'm a GSM50 that I make tons of money, and let me tell you... NO I'M NOT. You want to know why?

2 reasons:

1) Because making new jewelry is pointless since there's always 30+ items listed of the hot selling ones, and people undercut like crazy.

2) And second of all and the most important of the two reasons is: HQ jewelry is WORTHLESS because people STILL undercut like crazy even when there's 3 +1 rings listed...

So here's an example of WHY making +1 items and selling them is pointless:

I want to HQ a Zircon Ring +1 (Int +18). I buy 3x Electrum ores +1 for 50k each, and a zircon gem for around 30k. I begin the synthesis process and I freakin HQ the ring!!! Go over to the wards, and the Zircon Ring +1 sells for... 180k....

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

The end.

Update edit: For people who are reading this topic for the first time. In short, it seems like don't bother to level DoH classes as getting the raw materials +1 as a DoL is the way to go to make money.

Which basically means, I WAS RIGHT.

Why you waste time on HQ Jewelry that's easiest to get/make? I don't know why but I always get Raw Zircon +1s way more than any other Raw Gem. Plus Zircons are only used by BLMs, and depending on the playstyle some MNKs. If you really want to make money with jewelry...go for Spinels and Black Pearls. Spinel Choker+1, Spinel Rings+1, Black Pearl Choker +1, Black Pearl Rings +1 are the stuff that gets you money. And believe it or not, there is no way of synthing Black Pearls +1 right now, you can only farm them from Goblins, so even w/o mining you could get them (given you got 1 Battle Class at 50)...

If you got neither, Miner, nor Battle Class 50, then suck it up...the system of depency between classes is working, if you decided to ignore that, you get nothing out of it.

[Babydoll]

Undercutters will never realize they only hurt themselves..^_~

[Lstkaws]

I am very impressed with how much people watch and react to the market and have worked hard to gain an understanding of it. However, there are a few things I would like to point out.

1. Time is worth gil (money). How much is the Ops time worth? How much gil would he pay himself to mine? If he doesn't like to mine he would want more money for his time. I know I ask for more money when I am offered a job that is more difficult or has more responsibility. If he doesn't want to mine he needs to find another way to make money with GSM. This is possible but the margin will be smaller and it will be more of a grind, but if you enjoy crafting and dislike DoL then it will be worth it. If you are just after gil..well then you need to level DoL.

2. I have made money from day one with GSM. Some of it has been lower profit margins due to purchasing materials, but I have always kept my mining at about the same level as GSM (just bought mats when lazy). Just know if you are not willing to farm you own mats you will always have a lower profit margin. Farming your own mats is an example of "vertical integration".

Finished products can often be more expensive than the mats used to make them. This is because people use the mats to skill up. There is even real world precedence for this. People will often go to student dentists, orthodontists, MD students because it is cheaper. Why is it cheaper? It is cheaper because you are not paying for the finished product (labor) you are only paying for the materials. This is so the students can gain valuable practice (they are skilling up on you). You received the finished product for the cost of the mats or possibly less if the school was given a deal on the mats by the company that manufactures them.

[Molly_Millions]

OP, you bought the mats, that's where you went wrong. Farm them if you want to make money. I could buy the mats too and have a crafter make them for free. Why would I buy them from you, when people can and will sell the item i want for less?