Revelations from Patch 6.2: Buried Memories

[Zaniel]

MSQ dungeon

I found Beatrice's castle interesting in the MSQ dungeon. Obviously she is Beatrix from FF9, her portrait even looks like the FF9 character to a T. I never finished FF9 so I wonder if anyone has a take on the paintings in the Castle during the MSQ? All the women seem to have had their faces scrubbed out and only the men remain except the one who looks like a Caster or Ninja. You don't normally see details like this without it being an easter egg/clue/red herring.

[Cleretic]

MSQ general feeling: Really good, even if it is mostly setup!

This one's not gonna be a favorite after all is said and done because it doesn't really have any big moments in terms of revelations or spectacle, but it's pretty good. I love the use of Scarmiglione to actually show the whole 'yeah voidsent literally cannot die' thing; I knew they'd use his undead nature, but I didn't guess that would be how.

I am EXTREMELY thankful that nobody guessed right on how Zero would be handled at all; she's a far cry from anything expected, and far better for it. I'm calling it, we're getting her hat-tip emote someday, but it'll be either mogstation like /snap or limited-time reward like /determined. Still, looking forward to the Scions' further adventures with the only person they've ever met that knows what a paycheck is!

Similarly, moving Barbariccia in to be so early does a great job of knocking our expectations off-kilter; I think a lot of people were landing on very typical expectations of the story based on what we know is coming both in story and in content load, so much like the 'wait Zodiark is the first trial' beat, we're finding ourselves quickly rewriting expectations.

Very happy with Golbez just being an unrepentant conqueror with no noble aims. The potential double meaning of 'redemption' gave people the idea he might be more noble, and it's fun to see that... yeeeeeah, by 'redemption' he meant 'we deserve better, let's take it'. I've seen the assumption that he might be an eidolon that's been kept going because, unlike their primal cousins, they don't need extra fuel in the Void and will just keep coming back, and I buy it.

Also: the hilariously on-the-nose reference game is something I'm a fan of. Not even trying to be subtle.

The one downside... I don't think we needed Adult Varshahn for Trusts. Not only does it lose the whole 'Vrtra is a kid by his species' standards' thing, but it doesn't even look that good. To borrow the Mulaney bit: he doesn't look older, he just looks worse. Get some rest, tall child!

Similarly, Abyssos takeaways: Honestly a bunch of this should've been in P1-4, because it addresses all my problems with Pandaemonium, but came way too late for those problems to actually be solved.

Hooray, we have an antagonist, stakes, and a reason why this might affect the rest of the game! ...probably could've used implementing them earlier, because it took most of a year before I was given an answer for the question of 'why is this supposed to feel worth doing'.

Fun to see that their angle for how to make a sympathetic Lahabrea is 'introduce a worse Lahabrea, and then introduce someone even worse than that Lahabrea'. There definitely seems to be a general acknowledgement among the writers that trying to make us sympathize with someone as psychopathically evil as Lahabrea of all people is a lot to ask, and frankly I think may not have been worth it, but I do appreciate that pretty much every dialog choice we have about him has an option to call out that he becomes an abject monster who should not be trusted. Just because we can't kill him, doesn't mean we have to be nice, and I like when the game gives you choices to make tit clear you don't have to accept the atonement/redemption/sympathy play they go for.

While I don't think I was right or that it's going to be made a thing, it did occur to me during the fight that Agdistis might be something of a precursor example to what Zero talked about of voidsent consuming others leading to a loss of self; that similarly, she'd been crammed with the essences of so many creatures that she was losing her sense of self.

In talking about this stuff before release, I landed on calling two particular figures 'Proto-Carbuncle' and 'Shadow Lahabrea' just out of convenience. ...I didn't expect to be right, though; not only was Proto-Carbuncle actually called that, but... uhm, yeah, that is straight-up Lahabrea's shadow in the Jungian sense, that is literally that. P5-8 was just a Persona dungeon in another game. Incidentally, as an FFV fan, loved Proto-Carbuncle's whole fight revolving around bouncing magic off Reflect.

Finally... do we give P8 the reward for 'most elaborate asset reuse'? Between the music being a mashup of Without Shadow, Shadows Withal and Thunderer, the cameo by Phoenix, and all three of his forms being reused skeletons, I'm genuinely impressed with how far they stretched it.

[Sarim]

Regarding Abyssos:

Somehow Themis (Elidibus) and Lahabrea will have to loose their memories like Emet in the final raid parts, or they would remember us in the later timeline, no? Maybe if Pandemonium returns home that will cause the memory wipe, but who knows at this point

[Kuroka]

For the msq, am i the only one gettin huge Made in Abyss vibes from her domain...? Though the raid had some too... or FMA ones lol

[Cleretic]

Regarding Abyssos:

Somehow Themis (Elidibus) and Lahabrea will have to loose their memories like Emet in the final raid parts, or they would remember us in the later timeline, no? Maybe if Pandemonium returns home that will cause the memory wipe, but who knows at this point

I don't think that's actually something they need to write in, there's already logical reason.

Lahabrea went crazy and Elidibus got Fantasy Alzheimer's. I think it makes perfect sense that neither of them remembered us all too well.

[Lurina]

I don't think that's actually something they need to write in, there's already logical reason.

Lahabrea went crazy and Elidibus got Fantasy Alzheimer's. I think it makes perfect sense that neither of them remembered us all too well.

10 characters.

I doubt it's as simple as Lahabrea going crazy at this point. We know that in the present day, he basically embodies the traits of Hephaistos he locked away in the stone, but right now in Pandaemonium he's planning on destroying it.

Something we haven't seen yet must have happened.

[Raiya]

10 characters.

I doubt it's as simple as Lahabrea going crazy at this point. We know that in the present day, he basically embodies the traits of Hephaistos he locked away in the stone, but right now in Pandaemonium he's planning on destroying it.

Something we haven't seen yet must have happened.

Well the revelations on Lahabrea are certainly the interesting kind and definately a good plot twist for his character.

Taking the similarities with Lahabrea's evil twin and his original self plus how by the time we encounter him in the present day, it's possible he had to restore that part of his soul to deal with the crisis of his time. The one thing we do know is that by the time we encounter him in the modern day and defeat him he had suffered significant degradation to his own soul to the point he was much much weaker than Emet. This was said by Emet in Shadowbringers to be possible a result of his excessive body hopping. It's likely though that the damage he inflicted on himself to contain his corrupted self is the true reason for him weakening over the years as well as the reason he was so unhinged.

Regarding Abyssos:

Somehow Themis (Elidibus) and Lahabrea will have to loose their memories like Emet in the final raid parts, or they would remember us in the later timeline, no? Maybe if Pandemonium returns home that will cause the memory wipe, but who knows at this point

We know at the moment that Venat obviously is aware of our existence but we also know from dialogue that it's nearly if not outright confirmed that our past self is aware of ourselves likely due to Venat confiding in us. It's also quite possible that Elidibus later also finds out the truth but chooses to keep his peace from the other's knowing the outcome and knowing that his becoming Zodiark's heart would lead him to forgetting this knowledge by the time he eventually makes it to the modern day. Elidibus was always one to hold to his duty and see things through, his own nature would suggest that knowing the final outcome of events he would likely do the same all over again knowing it would be worth the cost.

[SannaR]

Msq thought

I don't think it's the WoL who wants to become friends with Zero. If anything it's the other way around. While she also is trying to figure out what that word means. Think about it she's from a world where friendship used to be a thing but it also has been a dog eat dog world for a few thousand years that word holds no meaning any longer. Then there is the whole who she even if it was for a short time was seemingly forcefully bonded to and how that individual defined the word friend.

Anyone else wonder if our reaper Avatar situation is like how Zero's was? Or is it because Zenos did what he did in order to use her as his Avatar that it is seen as a one sided pact? I loved how Zero was all "what is food and why do I need to eat it?" I'm glad Zero isn't as trigger happy as she could be cause we'd be down one Nidhana. Why and how Cloud of Darkness seems to be dead dead makes sense as she probably ate a lot of others.

Another thing I like is that not every voidsent wants to eat others due to the possibility of losing one's identity.

More raid

I'm so glad Elidibus mentioned thar he had parents. For a while I was thinking Eric was an outlier. Yet Lahabreha gets all we can bump uglies and have kids that way, but it's not the only way. Which makes me go wait were Ancients like the dragons? Were they also making soulless kiddos via creation magics? Also dude stop looking at my WoL as a possible research subject. I don't care how interesting I am due to my aether being as thin as a fine mist. While you think I should also be hitting things like a wet noodle due to my thin aether. I wonder how much Venat told Azem and Elidibus about us or that she just spent some time with an interesting familiar that looked exactly like Azem.

[SannaR]

Oh I also love the small nod about Scaitch (I know I'm spelling that wrong most likely.)

[Larirawiel]

Lol, i would laugh when ...

Zero is our shard from the 13th. Then she will devour us and our souls will merge. And a new, improved Warrior of Light will be created.

Cheers