i'm sick and tired of the excuse for not having unique or varied jobs

[IkaraGreydancer]

It would lead to more pronounced metas for sure but saying it leads to more class complaints is potentially missleading. It would lead to more complaints from people that care a lot about job balance but probably less from people who would readily sacrifice job balance for uniqueness.

Yet unique classes doesn't mean they'll be good or fun. Unless I've missed some posts it seems as though most folks thinks it will all just be fine n dandy so long as everything is unique. That's far from true. All classes could be unique and they all could be terrible whether thats due to garbage damage or a mytiad or reasons. I'll take what is called a homogenized class that's still loads of fun (imo ofc) over a unique class that isn't. Blm currently is a class I see as very unique but its not fun by any means.

Idk maybe im just weird lol unique has ever equaled fun or better to me

[Arrius]

I would pay double my sub (so pretty much a FFXI sub) just to see what 3.X combat is like. With how many players that talk about HW so fondly, it only has me curious.

They mostly refer to the story, not about the jobs.

Someone brushed upon that in a twitter post for some humor: https://twitter.com/mane_tank/status...76988936966145

And yes, it was bad as it is told there. And more.

[hagare]

They mostly refer to the story, not about the jobs.

Someone brushed upon that in a twitter post for some humor: https://twitter.com/mane_tank/status...76988936966145

And yes, it was bad as it is told there. And more.

Hey I just saw that xD

[VentVanitas]

They mostly refer to the story, not about the jobs.

Someone brushed upon that in a twitter post for some humor: https://twitter.com/mane_tank/status...76988936966145

And yes, it was bad as it is told there. And more.

To be frank Twitter memes are not going to dissuade me of my curiosity, I am well aware of the jank. I would still pay money for hypothetical 3.X servers knowing full well there were clunkier and objectively terrible systems back then.

[Renathras]

I'd counter that by askeing what game are they playing if they think jobs play differently..

I'd note that ANYthing, if broken down to a fundamental level is the same.

"Every Job in WoW plays the same! I press one button to do damage and another button to do damage in a different way!"

"Every FPS is the same! You point at enemies and press the shoot button!"

"Every language is the same! There are nouns, verbs, adverbs, and adjectives, and you arrange them into sentences!"

There's a point where you can distill any category of things to where they're all "the same" from a far enough zoomed out viewpoint. On some level, we could argue that a Dungeons and Dragons Warrior is "the same" as a Dungeons and Dragons Cleric...but are they really?

PLD has a 1-2-3 combo alternated with a 1-2-4 combo with a 5-5-5 singer on the end, and you use a separate button to buff those forms of physical damage, and every other set of those, you activate a buff to magical damage, then follow with a 6-6-6-6, 7-7-7-7 combo of magical free movement.

WAR has a 1-2-3 combo and a 1-2-4 combo you use about once every 30 seconds. Every few combos, you dump gauge on a 5. You have a 1 min CD button you press that lets you spam 5 3 times and lets you use 6, a powerful gap closer strike. You have a CD to hit that morphs 5 into another ability that you can then immediately use.

There's no world where those two are "the same". They both function differently. The closest argument you can make is Inner Release KINDA works like Requiescat, except you get far less Fell Cleaves, there's no follow-op finisher, and Fell Cleave is not a ranged ability.

Again, "Every language is the same! There are nouns, verbs, adverbs, and adjectives, and you arrange them into sentences!" is superficially true, but not true to any serious person.

PLD and WAR play distinctly/differently. Contrast their opener, their general gameplay flow, their ranged options, and even their number of hotbar buttons used to execute all this and they just aren't the same at all. The general flow of WAR's rotation is 1-2-3 pretty static with the rare 1-2-4 while PLD alternates 1-2-3 and 1-2-4-5-5-5 as its core rotation. PLD's caster phase is only "the same" as WAR's on the most superficial level possible, and has twice as many buttons and 8/3rds as many attacks (8/7ths if dumping Infuriate and capped on Beast Gauge).

And note this is JUST talking about their damage kits.

EDIT:

Likewise, the healers aren't the same. Their damage kits aren't even the same, though their core (2 buttons) is largely the same. Their healing kits are distinct and feel different to play on and use, and their damage kits are varied, even if not by a ton. SCH has Energy Drain and Ruin 2 as a movement tool. WHM has Misery and Lily use as a movement tool that heals instead of dealing damage (being refunded on the back end). SGE has a damage positive GCD attack that requires melee range and a ranged GCD cast that also does an AOE heal. AST I really don't play, but it's still distinct from the rest. And those abilities aren't exactly infrequent, either. And note I'm JUST talking GCDs here, not oGCDs.

And DPS Jobs, that is, ACTUAL, red icon, DPS Jobs, are more diverse still. BLM, SMN, and RDM play nothing like each other. MNK, DRG, NIN, and SAM (and RPR) play nothing like each other. BRD, MCH, and DNC play nothing like each other.

.

ALL.
THAT.
SAID:

I very much WOULD like to see more diversity. But there's no reason to ignore where we already have it.

BLM, SMN, and RDM all play very distinct, for example.

PLD, WAR, DRK, and GNB play very distinct - I started a thread in the Tank forum section asking people to say what they like about each and why, and if you read it, you'll see people going on and on about which ones they like (and which they don't like/hate), and why. You'll see conflicts (one person say they love WAR because it's simple and hate PLD because of the cursed opener followed by someone saying they love PLD with its cursed opener because they can optimize and feel rewarded playing it while they find WAR bland and boring), but no one really saying they're "all the same".

.

There's a way to make a case that isn't resorting to hyperbole. When you resort to hyperbole, it diminishes your argument. Especially when people are legitimately making the case for more diversity between Jobs within a role. There's no need to come along and say "Yeah, like how PLD and WAR are identical Jobs" when that's (a) objectively false and (b) people are already making the general argument that more diversity is good.

They mostly refer to the story, not about the jobs.

Someone brushed upon that in a twitter post for some humor: https://twitter.com/mane_tank/status...76988936966145

And yes, it was bad as it is told there. And more.

Basically this.

There is an absolute truth to "rose tinted goggles".

Back in HW, people complained endlessly about the very things people now want back. I've said this before and I'm sure I'll say it again: Most of the simplification and homogenization we've gotten was due to the Devs listening to players asking for it, either implicitly as the natural result of things they asked for, or explicitly, with the players outright asking for it directly.

Everything people now complain about having lost was lost because people at the time complained about it existing to various degrees, or wanting it changed in some ways that necessitated the overall result.

[Renalt]

I play my Monk when I'm in the mood for fisting. I'll play my Dragoon if I'm in the mood to handle a pole. I'll play WAR if I just wanna smash. I'll play a Bard if I wanna work on my fingering but also not in the mood to get attached and keep them at Arm's Length.

There is something for everyone.

[ReynTime]

They mostly refer to the story, not about the jobs.

Someone brushed upon that in a twitter post for some humor: https://twitter.com/mane_tank/status...76988936966145

And yes, it was bad as it is told there. And more.

Nah I loved and still miss Heavensward's "clunky" jobs. Get the hell out with that noise.

I'll take all the old tank and healer jank over the atrocious design they have right now. Also current state of SMN is the most boring experience I ever had in an online game since 2004.

Current job design is 90% pure shite in PvE.

[Hazama999]

Most of the stuff I miss from HW are the "little things."

With DRK as an example, I miss the parry/reprisal mechanic, miss Sole Survivor, how Abyssal Drain used to work... Hell, I really liked the fact that Darkside was a stance which drained your MP. It wasn't hard to manage, but it was a flavorful inconvenience. Wasn't really a huge thing either, but it helped, along with other things, to give DRK that sense of identity.

[Silver-Strider]

The only issue I had with HW in terms of Job design was

1) Bowmage/Gunmage and their reliance on DRG for Piercing debuff.
2) MP issues with WHMM
3) TP issues with MNK
4) No magic block PLD

Still beats brain dead healers, that's for sure.

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

There are two things that will go about this way.

1. There will be the hardcore players that will ONLY go for the meta, thus killing the feel of uniqueness and ultimately wasting developers time in making things that are never used because they are not the meta.
2. There will be more players that will play the worst possible builds due to being unique and we are already suffering with players still fishing for Freecure at lvl80+ content, Tanks not popping their mitigations and baby pulling and many other issues.

And you want to make the game even more complex for what? Having that fake feeling you are making a unique build while at the end of the day you are either making a meta build that some hardcore mathematicians posted their perfectly calculated meta builds on the internet so that everyone can copy from or just becoming deadweight?