Healers need an overhaul

[Selvokaz]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days. requiring us to do DPS is fine asking us to DPS with 8 buttons dedicated to just DPS is ridiculous. I think one of the issues is people don't realize most healing jobs do more than just heal dump, Healing, Shielding, Buffing, and DPS is something the best healer job does. The Shielding and Buffing doesn't have to be done at the last second, it can be done preemptively, DPS can then be done safely for a few seconds before healing, buffing, or shield is done again. DPSing on a healer should require you to be playing 2 roles in one job because no other role is doing that. DPSer aren't struggling or forced to do tank or healer rotations, nor are tanks required to do healing or dps rotations to do their primary role as tanks, the latter is built directly into their role.

Healers have simple dps rotations so that as the content its older they don't have to focus so heavily on damage and spend a little more of their time making sure newer players or not as good players stay alive while attempting said aging content, that would be harder to do if healer had to keep up with a samurai level dps rotation and be expected to keep the party alive. Let them have their soft dps skills, so they don't need to be 4 armed keyboard savants to play one role.

[Visanis]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days

Except even with all the problems cleric stance created when forgetting to turn it off, it was way better back then to play healer when healing wasn't required. They can bring it back by just adding the skills they removed, minus cleric stance.

[Kolsykol]

I was around with the Cleric Stance thing too, I didn't really like it either.
At first I did because it was so different but after I got used to it I just felt it was annoying.

But I also don't think anyone is really asking for it to return, people are asking for better rotations.

I definitely think 8 buttons would be too much for Healers.
But I think 2-3 more buttons maybe would be good.
WHM for example use to have two dots, one of which was AoE.
Why was that removed? It was actually pretty cool and unique to WHM.

[Nizzi]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days. requiring us to do DPS is fine asking us to DPS with 8 buttons dedicated to just DPS is ridiculous. I think one of the issues is people don't realize most healing jobs do more than just heal dump, Healing, Shielding, Buffing, and DPS is something the best healer job does.

Okay, you can keep your "shielding, buffing, healing" AST with 1 button and the rest of us can get something else because SGE, SCH and WHM don't have anything to manage. No, hitting Chain Stratagem on SCH every 2 minutes isn't "managing a buff" either.

DPSing isn't done "safely for a few seconds" it's literally done all of the time. Savage and Ultimate are designed for you to constantly be hitting that one button. Even solo healing DSR you cannot escape having your 1 primary damage nuke being the button you hit the most. The fights are designed so you are DPS in everything but name. I'm really not sure why you use Cleric Stance as a reason for why we cannot have anything more than 1 button to press - seems like SCH was doing just fine from a DPS perspective back in Stormblood where old Cleric Stance didn't exist. Nobody is asking for a "samurai level DPS rotation", stop creating strawmans nobody is asking for. If having 2 more DoTs to manage on SCH would be "samurai level" I really have no clue what to say to you. We can keep bad things in the past while also bringing back good things again. Nobody is asking for punishing systems like Cleric Stance, stop trying to use it for a justification on why they gutted healers in Shadowbringers, an expac after they removed old Cleric Stance.

[Hezhi]

I'm just baffled at the amount of pushback you guys are getting. Some people must genuinely find 11111 2 1111111 2 gameplay fun lol we got some cookie clicker experts in here.
Reading these peoples responses its like the game didnt exist pre ShB and people were utterly incapable of healing fights designed in the exact same way before they axed SCH and friends. It's just sad.

[KDSilver]

If only you guys were around for the Cleric Stance Dance phase of 14, you'd likely change your tune and understand why we healer mains aren't thirsting to return to those days. requiring us to do DPS is fine asking us to DPS with 8 buttons dedicated to just DPS is ridiculous.

I was there.
I liked it.

Do I think it was healthy for tha game ? I don't.
Stormblood was a good standing point for healer imo. Just had to adjust and fix some things here and there.
Shb hurt healer the most.

I think one of the issues is people don't realize most healing jobs do more than just heal dump, Healing, Shielding, Buffing, and DPS is something the best healer job does.

No.
I had a friend of mine who was new to the game. She started really quickly to throw rocks (whm) during downtime because her class and the healing design had nothing else to offer.
She was not that great of a player because she had everything to learn.

Healing has to be done every 20 to 30s at best most of the time. It's very scripted.
Once you start playing the same content over and over again, your brain memorize when damage appaear. And you start realizing you have plenty of time to do something else.
Healing kit are really strong and we are bloated with a lot of healing skills.

However, Heavensward still had some engagement that was fun to keep.
At least shielding had some meaning since we had less oGCD and we were to one in charge. Less party mitigation.

HW Scholar had that feeling. You needeed to shield properly, safely using the few oGCD you had otherwise you were left spamming succor which barely restored anything.
You had to be careful with your mana and aetherflow usage. Aetheflow used to be a real mechanic because it was better the spend a stack healing to save the other healer a GCD than using it on energy drain.
You could micro manage your fairy and forcing her embrace on dedicated target with macro or manually.
You had diversity with eye for an eye or virus to reduce damage taken.

So yes, I played during that time.
I would not say we should return to these days.
But a lot of interesting interaction have been taken away and nothing to replace them to the point that. What used to be engaging and fun to learn and get better at has become one of the most boring and interesting role of the game.

[Lilapop]

Except even with all the problems cleric stance created when forgetting to turn it off, it was way better back then to play healer when healing wasn't required. They can bring it back by just adding the skills they removed, minus cleric stance.

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!

play a dps class!

[Reiryuu]

you'd like a full proper dps rotation without healing? this is achievable in today's gameplay!

play a dps class!

Except that some DPS and Tanks have DPS rotations *and* decent healing capability compared to most damage in the game. So it's not like other roles are held fast to just their specific roles. RDM and SMN can even raise. The DPS and the tanks even get the lion's share of all the buffing and debuffing in the game.

[Lilapop]

again, we disagree on the "know better'. Know "differently" - yes. You are basically invalidating new players opinions and perceptions as if they were new-born babies who had never played any game, had never healed in any other game or were incapable of talking to veteran healers and discussing these skills.
So to summarize (1) no, new players are not limited to "look up and read" and (2) new players may- not always- bring valuable experience and context that should not be discounted.

I can explain it again if that isn't clear.

how on earth am i invaliding new players??? i'm simply saying researching and seeing gameplay of how things used to be is not the same experience as actually playing back then. i don't think that invalidates anyone on either side. newer players are limited to "look up and read" unless you invented a means to go back in time and allow people to play the class exactly as it was back then? they can give their opinions on what it looks like, sure, but not what it feels like to actually play, which is all i'm saying.

[Lilapop]

Except that some DPS and Tanks have DPS rotations *and* decent healing capability compared to most damage in the game. So it's not like other roles are held fast to just their specific roles. RDM and SMN can even raise. The DPS and the tanks even get the lion's share of all the buffing and debuffing in the game.

but if one wants to not be expected to heal and doesn't feel like wasting time/slots on the hotbar for something not needed, playing a class literally classified as a healer doesn't sound right for them. if someone wants to do the big numbers without having to heal or being expected to heal, dps class would be their better bet. ++ as you say, they can play a dps with utility heals if they want to (someone shockingly) stop dps-ing to heal.