Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

Considering you misheard what was said. I suppose we need to get you a hearing aid, an adult to sit by you and explain maybe.

So long as it's your lap im sitting in.

I fail to see how being insulting is helping any discussion. If you think they're arguing in bad faith, block or ignore them.

Why are you even addressing me when the insults started being thrown by him? Talk to him about it lmao dont play the double standard game. If you want to be productive in the discussion can we all at least have watched the QnA and understand it? Thank you.

[thegreatonemal]

So long as it's your lap im sitting in.

Only people who can read and hear correctly. Work hard and maybe one day. I've no faith in you but who knows you might rise above your suffering.

[Alenore]

I'm not saying she's trying to save us from dying ever. I'm saying she did what she needed to do to give us a chance to not die today in a sense. With the information she had and her own people's choice to not do anything about the core of the issue(they were far too concerned with getting back to how they were before the Final Days) she took action and sundered the world to give us a chance at living. She herself wasn't even sure it would work which is why 6000 years into her waiting she has the moon which was only supposed to keep Zodiark confined, into a ship capable of traveling to other stars(Given Meteion's actual goal this wouldn't save anyone but she didn't know that at the time) Sundering the world did two things, the first being defeat Zodiark the second to reduce the aether we had so we can interact with Dyamis because that's needed if you are gonna put up any kind of fight.

The choices she made were logical, in the end it was a gamble. We're alive and Meteion isn't so it worked.

The problem with your argument is, she purposefully withheld from them the source of the issue: Meteion. Ancients had no idea what was happening, and thought it was caused by pretty much their version of the Ozone hole: celestial currents being weak at some points.
So far we have every reason to believe they didn't know about the real cause, otherwise Hythlodaeus or Emet-Selch would have mentioned it when we brought them back, or during our encounters. It's not even a matter of proving that it really happened ; they have a much stronger Echo than us, she could share her memories, or even show them Ktisis scene from that place.

So they solved it, during a cataclysm, by extreme measure because time was short: summoning Zodiark to ensure it would fix it.
Said summoning fixed the issue, but damages were already done to the star, so they had to go along with the 2nd summoning to kickstart life back.
A third summoning was envisaged to bring back those who sacrificed themselves, once what they consider lower-value life was common enough, but it would have taken time to reach that point. The morality of such a sacrifice is something nobody will ever agree on, given this thread is already at 38 pages and the one about joining Emet at 120, really.

They had no idea the source of the problem was still out there. What else should they do but fix their star, if they think they solved the issue? For all they knew it might have been a natural event, or linked to that sound in the ground. Venat didn't exactly give them that much time to even try to investigate further now that they were safe and the star fixed, before sundering everything.

She could have warned them at any point. She could have told them that she located the source of the issue in space, and prevented the Final Days from happening by summoning Zodiark early. She could have said from the get-go that it was an issue with the celestial currents, and that they had to be strengthened. It would have, at least, saved the second sacrifice of souls to breathe life back into the land.

Or she could have told the true story to everybody. Hermes little Kairos trick would have amounted to nothing among people to whom Venat could share her own memories through the Echo, people who could confirm it using their Echo in Ktisis so see how events unfolded. Emet would probably even take it personally to have been manipulated that way and dive head first into Dynamis research, especially since his job is handling the Underworld and the souls, and Meteion laser beam is actually able to destroy them, as we reported.
Instead, she let event unfold exactly as we told them, knowing full well how many would die, that her own star would be faced a second time with that cataclysm and with no more chances to

If anything, defeating Zodiark was dangerous in itself: reducing by 14 the strength of the shield protecting your planet against a space laser may not be the best course of action. What if we had changed anything about the timeline and Zodiark was now actually less powerful, and reducing its power would be fatal? She mentions that she has no idea if we'd even go back to our own time or if we already changed things.
Giving people the potential to affect Dynamis even is a good idea, but they can literally create entelechy life forms, since Hermes did it. She didn't have to sunder Ancients to create being attuned to it, but just create familiars with the intend to use and harness it.

So yes, her gamble in the end did pay off. That doesn't make it less of a gamble. That just shows she has very little faith in her own people to actually do what they needed to, without even giving them the chance to rise to the occasion.
She decided to forgo the advices of others and take matter into her own hands, to create a subspecy that may or may not be enough to win that fight, because she perceived a flaw in them. Hermes at least had the taste to present them with a trial when he thought them lacking, instead of killing them outright.


Please note that it's my point of view with the current understanding of Ancient history. It'd probably just take a cutscene of Venat telling them to look at the stars and research Dynamis and them to reply to stop rambling and that they were safe for my opinion to change, but so far, that's how I read the situation.

[Alenore]

Why are you even addressing me when the insults started being thrown by him? Talk to him about it lmao dont play the double standard game. If you esnt to be productive in the discussion can we all at least have watched the QnA and understand it? Thank you.

"They started it" is terrible justification for acting like you do. Mind you, I do think they shouldn't insult you either. You're both acting childish. However, you were the one who literally dedicated a post to insulting him.

Some people may not know everything the lore has to offer and make best guesses and have their own theories based on knowledge they have. This knowledge might be wrong, or incomplete, and if you think you know better, you should strive to enlighten them instead of just telling them "Do your own research!§!!!!!§§! Come back when you know !§§!§!".
The Q&A is content available outside of the game, some people may not even know it exists, or have forgotten parts of what was mentioned in it. I'm sure you're not all knowing in matters of lore either (and neither am I), or may have misunderstood some content from the game or outside. I'm glad when I'm wrong and someone corrects me, or when my understanding of a situation or piece of lore was incorrect and someone makes me change my mind. Telling me "LOL YOU SUCK GO READ EE PAGE74" is just not constructuve.

As to why I chose to intervene, it's because this part of the forum has become much more annoying to read these past years, and I'd rather not see it devolve even further into a place I'm not even wanting to check, because people throw insults at each others when they disagree. It doesn't make for good discussions.

[KizuyaKatogami]

"They started it" is terrible justification for acting like you do. Mind you, I do think they shouldn't insult you either. You're both acting childish. However, you were the one who literally dedicated a post to insulting him.

Some people may not know everything the lore has to offer and make best guesses and have their own theories based on knowledge they have. This knowledge might be wrong, or incomplete, and if you think you know better, you should strive to enlighten them instead of just telling them "Do your own research!§!!!!!§§! Come back when you know !§§!§!".
The Q&A is content available outside of the game, some people may not even know it exists, or have forgotten parts of what was mentioned in it. I'm sure you're not all knowing in matters of lore either (and neither am I), or may have misunderstood some content from the game or outside. I'm glad when I'm wrong and someone corrects me, or when my understanding of a situation or piece of lore was incorrect and someone makes me change my mind. Telling me "LOL YOU SUCK GO READ EE PAGE74" is just not constructuve.

As to why I chose to intervene, it's because this part of the forum has become much more annoying to read these past years, and I'd rather not see it devolve even further into a place I'm even wanting to check, because people throw insults at each others when they disagree. It doesn't make for good discussions.

First of all, it was literally posted a page or two back... with the EXACT TIME. Secondly, no, stop with the double standard lmao. He literally dedicated 3-4 posts insulting me. Either do the research before trying to talk down to someone or dont say anything all. Also i didnt even insult you so im not sure where that analogy is even coming from. If you're going to try to play forum knight at least get the facts straight.

[thegreatonemal]

She explains why she didn't. They need Hermes for the coming event and it's not like they could have taken action to stop Meteion by the time she fled. After the fact Emet is tempered and Hythlodaeus is gone and the rest of their people are traumatized and wanting the good ole days back and too stubborn to listen to anything, the debates that spawned over the issue are proof enough of that, neither side was willing to listen.

How would they research Dyamis? Hermes is the "expert" on it and there is only one otehr creation that seems to utilize it in their entire world: the Elpis flower, which was made by some random guy long ago by mistake. Not knowing how Hermes would react limts a lot of options she could take and since he knows the subject matter and is obsessed with making his "test" fair who knows what he would do. He could sabotage Zodiark.

It's not that she didn't give them a chance, time was short, they were already preparing to do the third sacrifice.

@above Pointing out you not reading my screen name correctly and then proceeding to make jokes about it isn't really an insult. You did fail to read it and instead of dropping it you and a few others went into some nonsense, which I play along with. You never even addressed the issues I wanted to discuss with you, instead you opted to just keep condescending.

[Alenore]

-

They need Hermes to know where it comes from. Except Venat already knows, since we told her what the Watcher told us. They only need Hermes if Venat decides not intervene in any event, and keep to herself what she knows from the future.
As for Meteion, stopping her before she reaches Ultima Thule, certainly not. But devise a plan to fix the issue, as we did, in time? Most likely yes.

I guess that's what bugs me: why wouldn't she use what she knows of the future events? If that's to make sure our timeline is conserved, then they did a poor job explaining it in game, but that'd be a valid justification: "I acted in a way, these people now count on me, let's make sure this timeline and these peopls are saved".
But she could as well just try to save her timeline, and hope for ours to survive (just like G'raha's 8th calamity timeline still goes on, not that anybody knows it in-universe).

As for Dynamis, Hermes is not the only person knowing about it. He mentions it's not a common subject (during the Gobbue cutscene in Elpis), but some scholars are acquainted with the theory.
In over ten thousands years, one could probably rise to the occasion and actually reach some conclusion. Hell, Venat probably could considering she managed to design the plans for an interstellar spaceship and a spell to sunder reality itself. She seems quite adept at mastering new fields.

I don't think they were prepared to do the third sacrifice. Even if not taking the whole cutscene where she sunders the world at face values, it would be the 2nd: the Final day weather is still around, and they intend to insufle the world with new life. The plan for the third was waiting for the new life that was the result of the 2nd sacrifice to grow, and then sacrifice part of it in exchange for the souls.
The Ancient praying to Zodiark even proposes lives, to get back their perfect paradise. Not to sacrifice part of this paradise in exchange of the souls.
In any case, the timeline of these events is at best blurry, not less because the "Thou Must Live, Die, and Know" cutscene seems to be very open to interpretation.

[KizuyaKatogami]

She explains why she didn't. They need Hermes for the coming event and it's not like they could have taken action to stop Meteion by the time she fled. After the fact Emet is tempered and Hythlodaeus is gone and the rest of their people are traumatized and wanting the good ole days back and too stubborn to listen to anything, the debates that spawned over the issue are proof enough of that, neither side was willing to listen.

How would they research Dyamis? Hermes is the "expert" on it and there is only one otehr creation that seems to utilize it in their entire world: the Elpis flower, which was made by some random guy long ago by mistake. Not knowing how Hermes would react limts a lot of options she could take and since he knows the subject matter and is obsessed with making his "test" fair who knows what he would do. He could sabotage Zodiark.

It's not that she didn't give them a chance, time was short, they were already preparing to do the third sacrifice.

@above Pointing out you not reading my screen name correctly and then proceeding to make jokes about it isn't really an insult. You did fail to read it and instead of dropping it you and a few others went into some nonsense, which I play along with. You never even addressed the issues I wanted to discuss with you, instead you opted to just keep condescending.

I addressed what you wanted to discuss, you kept bringing up headcanon and refusing to address actual facts i laid out for you. You literally said i couldnt read period, and insulted my intelligence but sure, play the victim. Alenore fell for it and played the double standard game either way

[thegreatonemal]

They need Hermes to know where it comes from. Except Venat already knows, since we told her what the Watcher told us. They only need Hermes if Venat decides not intervene in any event, and keep to herself what she knows from the future.
As for Meteion, stopping her before she reaches Ultima Thule, certainly not. But devise a plan to fix the issue, as we did, in time? Most likely yes.

I guess that's what bugs me: why wouldn't she use what she knows of the future events? If that's to make sure our timeline is conserved, then they did a poor job explaining it in game, but that'd be a valid justification: "I acted in a way, these people now count on me, let's make sure this timeline and these peopls are saved".
But she could as well just try to save her timeline, and hope for ours to survive (just like G'raha's 8th calamity timeline still goes on, not that anybody knows it in-universe).

As for Dynamis, Hermes is not the only person knowing about it. He mentions it's not a common subject (during the Gobbue cutscene in Elpis), but some scholars are acquainted with the theory.
In over ten thousands years, one could probably rise to the occasion and actually reach some conclusion. Hell, Venat probably could considering she managed to design the plans for an interstellar spaceship and a spell to sunder reality itself. She seems quite adept at mastering new fields.

I don't think they were prepared to do the third sacrifice. Even if not taking the whole cutscene where she sunders the world at face values, it would be the 2nd: the Final day weather is still around, and they intend to insufle the world with new life. The plan for the third was waiting for the new life that was the result of the 2nd sacrifice to grow, and then sacrifice part of it in exchange for the souls.
The Ancient praying to Zodiark even proposes lives, to get back their perfect paradise. Not to sacrifice part of this paradise in exchange of the souls.
In any case, the timeline of these events is at best blurry, not less because the "Thou Must Live, Die, and Know" cutscene seems to be very open to interpretation.

They need him for more than that. She says so herself when she considers simply isolating him. He does take the seat of fandaniel, which deals with matters of the celestial, we know the basics.
How much time? It's never really stated how long it was before the final days started but I'd imagine it wasn't long.

That could have been part of it her not wanting to risk things too much given Hermes would be unpredictable.

It was a major issue, Venat herself has heard of it but admits to not knowing much again the issue of time. Most of the population wants nothing to do with trying to fix the core of the problem, they have a shiny new god to protect them. It took half the time 6000 years for the technology to travel the stars to be created and not move quickly either and theres still the matter of them not being able to wield dyanmis.

I'm not taking those scenes as they are I don't think the battle took place as they were just starting to sacrifice They had already done the first two sacrifices at that point. By the time they actually go through with creating Hydaelyn talks I'd imagine have already broken down. The one thing that nags me is why they even wanted a third sacrifice. The people from the first two willingly gave themselves, unless they only did so under the assumption that it would only be temporary.

@other guy You have it twisted buddy. I even asked you a while ago to either stay on topic or stop talking to me. Yet here you are.

[redheadturk]

She explains why she didn't. They need Hermes for the coming event and it's not like they could have taken action to stop Meteion by the time she fled. After the fact Emet is tempered and Hythlodaeus is gone and the rest of their people are traumatized and wanting the good ole days back and too stubborn to listen to anything, the debates that spawned over the issue are proof enough of that, neither side was willing to listen.

How would they research Dyamis? Hermes is the "expert" on it and there is only one otehr creation that seems to utilize it in their entire world: the Elpis flower, which was made by some random guy long ago by mistake. Not knowing how Hermes would react limts a lot of options she could take and since he knows the subject matter and is obsessed with making his "test" fair who knows what he would do. He could sabotage Zodiark.

It's not that she didn't give them a chance, time was short, they were already preparing to do the third sacrifice.

@above Pointing out you not reading my screen name correctly and then proceeding to make jokes about it isn't really an insult. You did fail to read it and instead of dropping it you and a few others went into some nonsense, which I play along with. You never even addressed the issues I wanted to discuss with you, instead you opted to just keep condescending.

So what? Let them do it. Also, yes, she could have told Emet alone what had happened with a vow asked of him not to tell Hermes and pressing how important it was Hermes not find out. Have them get the information they need to deal with the issue, deal with Meteion, and then arrest his arse so he can't do any more harm and deal with his mental issues at the same time.