Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Cleretic]

I think they just didn't consider that enough to make that plan. The way the Seventh Calamity turned out was a surprise to everyone, so I think the Ascians had accepted for all that time that this was gonna be what they had to do. After all, why would they go for a more localized plan? They clearly weren't impatient people, so doing it faster wasn't a priority. And they very clearly didn't care about the lives of others, so they wouldn't have done it for reasons of kindness.

Combine that with the fact that if they balls up the timing on the Source they cause another Thirteenth situation, they probably aren't inclined towards changing the formula, either. The way they're doing things works, and none of the potential downsides of it are actually problems to them, so why do anything different?

[Alleo]

I didn’t mean to infer that if we find a reflection in distress - then we’d force it to rejoin. There are plenty of ways we could collect Azem shards without forcing a star to rejoin with the source. (Also, there are plenty of ways for our WOL to collect Azem shards without being the one to murder them). And I think the writers want the reflections to hang around for story-telling reasons. (Although I wouldn’t put it past the writers to do an expansion down the line centered on a surprise calamity/rejoining and all the upheaval/zone re-design that would cause).

It would go against the theme though because they would say: Well the rest should be fine with being imperfect beings but the WoL somehow needs to have all their shards restored.

I just dont see how that would really further the story at all. What would it bring to it? What would it truly give to the WoL? Since we dont really get some old memories back when we get rejoined with Ardbert I also doubt we would suddenly gain some insight on Azem. And even if we did, what would that truly change? The WoL is not THE Azem. We are reborn as a new person, with new loved ones, with new experiences. We wont just be Azem again, that one is death.

And it would make the WoL even more powerful that they are right now...which enemy should even stand a chance against a fully restored WoL who can just bascially use creation magic on a whim?

Yes some of Zodiark influence is decreasing but that is only for the parts that were still active, like the shroud of aether to ward of Meteion. Of course the planet would see noticeable changes when the aether suddenly gets much thinner. If anything he ever did was changed though then we would all die because he was the one undoing all the damage the Final Days caused. So if Hydealyns sundering, which was a one time act and not something she had to do over an over, somehow now is reversing then by logic all of Zodiark action would too. Which means everyone will die.

[KizuyaKatogami]

And it would make the WoL even more powerful that they are right now...which enemy should even stand a chance against a fully restored WoL who can just bascially use creation magic on a whim?

.

There is already nothing able to stand a chance or touch us. It’s been this way for multiple expansions now. Nothing has been able to touch us or the scions l, and if a universal threat couldn’t even do that then nothing will at this point. I’m not sure why it’s all of a sudden a problem now in the case of us restoring our azem shards. It’s quite literally how the game has been from the start. We always win with very little struggle. As far as furthering the story i mean….it would be a nice casually undoing the horrific events the sundering caused i’d say that’s a pretty good point. As for what would it bring to the story….what does scion plot armor abs constant death flags that amount to nothing bring to the story?

[Shookbeast]

It would go against the theme though because they would say: Well the rest should be fine with being imperfect beings but the WoL somehow needs to have all their shards restored.

I just dont see how that would really further the story at all. What would it bring to it? What would it truly give to the WoL? Since we dont really get some old memories back when we get rejoined with Ardbert I also doubt we would suddenly gain some insight on Azem. And even if we did, what would that truly change? The WoL is not THE Azem. We are reborn as a new person, with new loved ones, with new experiences. We wont just be Azem again, that one is death.

And it would make the WoL even more powerful that they are right now...which enemy should even stand a chance against a fully restored WoL who can just bascially use creation magic on a whim?

Yes some of Zodiark influence is decreasing but that is only for the parts that were still active, like the shroud of aether to ward of Meteion. Of course the planet would see noticeable changes when the aether suddenly gets much thinner. If anything he ever did was changed though then we would all die because he was the one undoing all the damage the Final Days caused. So if Hydealyns sundering, which was a one time act and not something she had to do over an over, somehow now is reversing then by logic all of Zodiark action would too. Which means everyone will die.

Ah. Sorry, about the confusion. I’m in the camp that believes the story will eventually reveal that our WOL is literally Azem, and that we’ll collect our remaining soul shards as part of a story arc that sees us going back in time - before the events of Elpis. Once we go back in time, that’s when we establish ourselves as Azem (or whatever we’re called before Venat steps down as Azem and we assume the title). So there’s no Azem (WOL Azem) before the moment in time we appear. This would explain why all the Ancients think Azem is so weird - because Azem is actually us from the future not knowing how to use our powers and preferring to punch things instead.

So if this theory holds true - it’s not really a problem about the memories or super powers or anything like that. Collecting the soul shards is all part of a bigger story that sees us going back in time to help solve a problem in the past (and probably also in the present). From there the writers may figure out a way for us to keep the timeline intact - but also progress forward in the story, and continue playing our WOL. (We likely get de-powered in the process). Or, this time travel story is truly endgame - and our WOL helps save the day - but also gets sundered - essentially closing the time-loop as the end of the very last expansion. (Not my preferred outcome, but entirely possible).

And I agree with you - indeed, if Zodiark and Hydaelyn are both gone - there could be dire consequences for all the stars. Sounds like expansion material to me.

[Lyth]

I suspect that the player character and Azem are possibly the same person, but by the reverse explanation. My prediction is that Azem will end up travelling forward in time sometime either during the events of Pandaemonium or shortly afterwards, which is why they seemingly disappear after stepping down from the Convocation. I also predict that our foray into Pandaemonium will put us at odds with Lahabrea (possibly over killing Athena a second time after she gets turned into a hemitheos), end up with Azem taking the blame on our behalf, and result in Elidibus making his famous promise to his idol to protect the world in their stead. Bonus points if the entire Convocation shows up for one last time to mistakenly condemn Azem. I also wonder if Venat's project on Elpis with her friend involving 'concept crystals' is to create the Convocation's soul crystals, which is why an unfinished Lahabrea crystal also ends up adrift in the future in our current timeline.

I think that the alternative (i.e. the player character travelling back in time to become Azem) is less likely because it creates a Captain America situation where you permanently retire the character off.

[Shookbeast]

I suspect that the player character and Azem are possibly the same person, but by the reverse explanation. My prediction is that Azem will end up travelling forward in time sometime either during the events of Pandaemonium or shortly afterwards, which is why they seemingly disappear after stepping down from the Convocation. I also predict that our foray into Pandaemonium will put us at odds with Lahabrea (possibly over killing Athena a second time after she gets turned into a hemitheos), end up with Azem taking the blame on our behalf, and result in Elidibus making his famous promise to his idol to protect the world in their stead. Bonus points if the entire Convocation shows up for one last time to mistakenly condemn Azem. I also wonder if Venat's project on Elpis with her friend involving 'concept crystals' is to create the Convocation's soul crystals, which is why an unfinished Lahabrea crystal also ends up adrift in the future in our current timeline.

I think that the alternative (i.e. the player character travelling back in time to become Azem) is less likely because it creates a Captain America situation where you permanently retire the character off.

That’s a pretty interesting idea. Definitely could fit in with current patches (:

How do we get Azem split up in the sundering? Do they/we go back in time again?

I like that it’s an unexpected move to have Azem hop forward instead of us going back. Would our WOL still literally be Azem somehow, or would you consider Azem to their own character, unrelated to us except by soul-chunks?

I agree with the Captain America issue - although it wouldn’t be a problem if that’s how the writers plan to end the MSQ (a loooong time from now). Or, if they do it sooner, the writers might have a plan to somehow alter the timeline so Azem/Us stays back in time, the Sundering happens, and we get to keep our WOL to continue playing in expansions going forward. I’d guess we accomplish this using some combination of Soul Crystals (with help from Venat) and perhaps Alexander.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I’m quite curious to see how they handle pandaemonium, mainly because it’s kind of extremely messed up to have us constantly go back and forth in time for it and having to interact with the ancients and just not saying anything to them about the world ending. I hope in the end it results in some sort of AU scenario where we can tell them the truth ourselves. I’d feel much better about not having to be complicit in Venat’s genocide plan and i’d love some agency

[Lyth]

...

That's a good question. If Azem time travels during the events of Pandaemonium, then they'd have to be sundered before everyone else. In order for that to be the case, either Azem had figured out how to do the Argos trick and it went awry, or Venat would have to sunder Azem directly.

I think that the events of Pandaemonium are directly linked to the original Final Days. The memory inscribed on the unmarked Lahabrea crystal tells us that 'the star is in grave danger'. Also, think back to the Amaurotians' memory of how it all started:

'One day, from within the earth, a terrible cry issued forth, affecting a profound change in all manner of life.'

We know, from the case of Thavnair, that the Final Days itself didn't manifest until after Khalzahl transformed into Svarbhanu. The sky above Thavnair changed only afterwards. That suggests to me that the index case might occur in the depths of Pandaemonium. One possible reason for that despair might be if someone was turned into a hemitheos when they really didn't want to be. You'd have the perfect medium - an Amaurotian soul, but with the reduced aetheric density of creation magic. Hence the 'terrible cry' from the depths as it transforms.

I think that if Azem is blamed for the trouble at Pandaemonium, it puts the Convocation in a difficult position. Perhaps Venat intercedes to administer punishment on their behalf to render Azem bereft of power, and places a traveller's ward on us before we go into exile.

[Alleluia]

Ok, maybe I’m stupid, but how exactly could Azem travel to the future/present and us still exist? Or at least still exist in that timeline where Azem does that.

[Shookbeast]

Here is a thought. Our Azem could still be literally be our WOL (through us going back in time before Elpis to get named Azem), and as we play Azem/WOL in the past, we encounter ourselves during Panda (and visa-versa, we glimpse ourselves near the end of Panda). Then we hop forward in time as Azem, (because we have story stuff we need to do in a different time period). This removes Azem from all the Z&H decisions because we’re off in the future punching things. THEN once we’re done in the future, we have to go back in time again, so Azem can get sundered.

We’ve always assumed Azem got sundered into 14 pieces (like everyone else) but what if we save a piece or two, with our WOL’s memories, and that’s what gets sent forward to the in-game present. Maybe there never was an Azem shard on the 13th, for example, because that’s the piece that gets sent forward in time to the source.

So basically we end up borrowing Ancient superpowers for a little while - but actually wind up de-powered by the end. All speculation, but I’m having a lot of fun with this Azem shard shell game (: