There's too much strawmanning people who criticize the game

[Xirean]

Based on your forum join date, that makes sense. You've only just started playing nine months ago. Even at a rushed pace, you'll have significantly more to do than someone like myself who has been playing since 2015. When I first started, I didn't have any of the primal mounts for months. In fact, I didn't even finish Heavensward until ten months later. Fast forward to now and I've simply caught up on everything to the point where I mostly have only the new patches itself of content to consume. With some exceptions, of course. I still have collected all the Triple Triad cards or maxed out a Chocobo. But I don't feel I should be scrapping the barrel looking for things to engage with because the new patch itself had very little to offer.

I started playing in HW. I just never got on the forums. I've done all that as well. Maxing the chocobo was one of the first things I did.

[Bunnycake]

I just want my hats. After that... I will complain about something else

I miss wearing helms sobs

[StriderShinryu]

It sure would be nice if the developers could just press the "more engaging quality content" button or the "just start the relic weapons" earlier button, but we all know that's not how that works. It's also not really an answer to the question that Vrankyl asked. It's like if you asked someone for a drink and they handed you an empty glass. It's only part of the equation.

What is "engaging quality content," and would it be engaging quality content for just you or for much of the player base? What would "starting the relic weapons earlier" actually entail? How long would an appropriate amount of said "content" take, and how would you balance that content to be doable in a reasonable amount of time by both those who can play 12 hours a day and those who can't even play 12 hours in a week? How would you ensure that it not only was "engaging" but remained of high "quality" for it's duration? How would you ensure that the rewards are appealing to enough people to make the investment in development time and resources worthwhile?

Let's say the developers said "Okay, relic weapons starting on May 5!" and they put out a quick quest that then leads into a grind where you have to do 1000 FATEs in every expansion to advance to the next step. There's your "The relic weapon starts earlier." I'm sure that's not really what anyone would want and, even if they did want that, it would completely freeze out players who had limited playing time (unless they severely nerfed that requirement later on, which would just tick off those who put in the work early).

[Skiros]

It sure would be nice if the developers could just press the "more engaging quality content" button or the "just start the relic weapons" earlier button, but we all know that's not how that works. It's also not really an answer to the question that Vrankyl asked. It's like if you asked someone for a drink and they handed you an empty glass. It's only part of the equation.

What is "engaging quality content," and would it be engaging quality content for just you or for much of the player base? What would "starting the relic weapons earlier" actually entail? How long would an appropriate amount of said "content" take, and how would you balance that content to be doable in a reasonable amount of time by both those who can play 12 hours a day and those who can't even play 12 hours in a week? How would you ensure that it not only was "engaging" but remained of high "quality" for it's duration? How would you ensure that the rewards are appealing to enough people to make the investment in development time and resources worthwhile?

Let's say the developers said "Okay, relic weapons starting on May 5!" and they put out a quick quest that then leads into a grind where you have to do 1000 FATEs in every expansion to advance to the next step. There's your "The relic weapon starts earlier." I'm sure that's not really what anyone would want and, even if they did want that, it would completely freeze out players who had limited playing time (unless they severely nerfed that requirement later on, which would just tick off those who put in the work early).

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

[Midareyukki]

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

It unfortunately does take a lot of time to do what you're asking them to do. Designing a whole area takes time. Designing compelling bosses takes time. Arranging fight timers takes time. As well as balancing out stuff and testing every nook and cranny, even if it's just a glorified corridor, takes time. It also needs a lot of time to decide on all of these things beforehand, as it does require a handful of resources.

For FATEs you literally just designate an area on the map you've done years ago and spawn in some critters.

I do agree they have a lot of content they could make permutations of, and especially if it's like... content they already have that could be repurposed (I thought of Treasure Maps in eureka before bunny fates were a thing). But it needs to be properly thought out.

Edit: Also they did make an alliance raid for the Bozjan relics. It was a mess and it's currently virtually never ran outside of once-in-a-blue-moon PF parties.

I just want my hats. After that... I will complain about something else

I'll just return to being "content but disgruntled with minor things" if they fix hats or give Hrothgar proper attention.

[Broken_Wind]

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

The harder alliance raids would be the same thing though: content that was great when it was released, then people learn it (so its no longer challenging), and it becomes like everything else.

Finding middle ground isn't easy to do.

How do you create something that makes people *want* to grind it vs making people feel like they are *compelled* to grind it
While I wont say 'that is what killed WoW', it certainly was one of the most consistent criticisms against WoW

My solution would be to look at Everquest's Lost Dungeons of Norrath.
It had my favorite repeatable dungeon system of all time (though not without its flaws)
There were a set number of maps, but objective placement chnaged throughout them.

FFXIV could take it a step further and have bosses with varied move sets so every encounter wasnt the same

Add a degree of the unexpected to things

Deep Dungeons have some of this, but PotD is just a bit too gimmicky. I want a traditional FFXIV experience with some mystery/unknown to it

[Skiros]

It unfortunately does take a lot of time to do what you're asking them to do. Designing a whole area takes time. Designing compelling bosses takes time. Arranging fight timers takes time. As well as balancing out stuff and testing every nook and cranny, even if it's just a glorified corridor, takes time. It also needs a lot of time to decide on all of these things beforehand, as it does require a handful of resources.

They literally just need to add an enrage to each fight in an alliance raid, and overlap existing mechanics and join them with current ones. That does not take new graphical or sound assets, and will not require them to design a whole area. It's mostly going to be battle design and QC, but it's not going to require the same amount of effort as making two alliance raids. They already make normal and Savage 8-man raids cheaply by simply removing enrage and mechanics from Savage to make normal raids. They could easily do the same for alliance raids: start off with something Savage level then remove the difficult parts of it to make it normal.

[StriderShinryu]

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

Oh come now. They can release Baldesion content for every odd patch and yet we don't even get more than a dungeon per patch? Rather than being pie in the sky how about you actually look at the sort of content we regularly receive in the game. DRS was the last time we received anything like an alternate difficulty version of something other than a single fight.

And the reason I say 5000 FATEs is simple. It's not really an exaggeration at all. Bear in mind they did release the Bicolor Gemstone mounts that required 50000 stones per mount (or about 3500 FATEs) and some people had completed that in a week or two.
We're supposedly talking about content that will satisfy players for literal months between patches, right? That's the bar you're setting. So 5000 FATEs is actually a low ball number for something that would keep the most hardcore busy for a few weeks while still being somewhat doable by more casual players.

This is why people who criticize the game are often "strawmanned" as you put it. Because they walk up with complaints and criticisms but rarely any actual, legitimate options or direction. Heck, the best you could do when asked earlier to provide an example of content was just quote someone else (who didn't even answer the question that was asked anyway).

[Skiros]

Oh come now. They can release Baldesion content for every odd patch and yet we don't even get more than a dungeon per patch? Rather than being pie in the sky how about you actually look at the sort of content we regularly receive in the game. DRS was the last time we received anything like an alternate difficulty version of something other than a single fight.

And the reason I say 5000 FATEs is simple. It's not really an exaggeration at all. Bear in mind they did release the Bicolor Gemstone mounts that required 50000 stones per mount (or about 3500 FATEs) and some people had completed that in a week or two.
We're supposedly talking about content that will satisfy players for literal months between patches, right? That's the bar you're setting. So 5000 FATEs is actually a low ball number for something that would keep the most hardcore busy for a few weeks while still being somewhat doable by more casual players.

This is why people who criticize the game are often "strawmanned" as you put it. Because they walk up with complaints and criticisms but rarely any actual, legitimate options or direction. Heck, the best you could do when asked earlier to provide an example of content was just quote someone else (who didn't even answer the question that was asked anyway).

It's not pie in the sky. It's totally realistic but they just aren't pouring the resources back into this game. This is well known ever since they announced the FF16 project.

[Jason_Ashford]

Let me just quote someone:



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And don't forget:





^ Toxicity in full display here. I was fully expecting the very strawmanning and toxicity that I described in OP to happen in this thread once again but it is still disappointing.

Please continue barking though.

right, i'm soooo toxic because we've given you the answer again and again, but you ignore it and continue on with your tirade. The game's content is not built to hold your attention for the 4 month span between patches, you have been actively encouraged by the developers to take a break and play something else while you wait for a new patch and new content to come out. Here's an idea, instead of complaining about the lack of content, why don't you try suggesting things they could add that would increase your enjoyment, and no, i'm not digging through your post history to find something you can easily provide.