The story is great, but it blatantly gets in the way of the rest of the game

[YukikoKurosawa]

That's a pretty toxic mentality to have towards new players. I agree about people joining the FOTM train and we should be taking advantage of that by trying to hook new players into the game with better gameplay, a better way of telling the story and not forcing people into hundreds of hours of story just to play the entire game. The 1-50 experience in this game right now is abysmal and SE isn't fixing the problems with it. They are trying to make an MMO that is single player friendly without making the gameplay at the beginning more fun. It is even worse when a vocal portion of the community talks about how great HW is and how much better all the jobs are in HW, but new players have to push through 2 button gameplay for 20+ levels with rotations only getting marginally better through level 50. They have to push through a bloated MSQ in ARR to even unlock HW while seeing their jobs level going up and all the skills that are locked behind being in HW. Potentially they will out level HW and get no new skills for the 50-60 experience while still doing ARR content.

We should want to reduce gating behind the MSQ so more people can do more things and we should want to reduce the bloat in the MSQ to a minimum.

Not every game is for everyone.

[MiaShino]

Researching a game prior to playing it is an alien concept to them. All they think is "Game popular, I play game cuz that's what everyone else is playing!". The opinions of these cretins does not matter and they will not be missed when they are innevitably filtered.

Pfffff the memes givith once again! The heck am I even reading? Filtered out..

"FFXIV is all about playing it your way."

"No no not that way foul cretin!"

Perhaps they simply wish to play something that everyone has told them is good? Yeah I am done.

Many apologies OP if you are still perusing this thread. Grab many snacks for the blood sugar and power through until you can play the class you wish. Give Heavensward a chance it was actually pretty darn engaging or play through in the later times with New Game+ as others have suggested. Perhaps use this thread as takeaway about what occurs when you criticize FF14 story.

[Amenara]

Not every game is for everyone.

I agree, but we should be trying to make the game better so we have more people that do want to stick around and try out the rest of the story, to keep playing, and to add to the community.

[IdowhatIwant]

You just completley misinterpreted what I meant. You should do research on a game to understand what kind of game it is prior to playing it (like you would not play Life is Strange if you don't like interactive movies and wanted a First Person Shooter). What kind of genre it is, what is the game about? Anyone doing research into FFXIV would know it's a story-focused game and would treat it as such. The problem with people like the afformentioend is they do no research because they just hop on bandwagons and just assume they will like X game because it's currently popular and trending as this game is right now, and are then in for a rude awakening when they discover it's not.

Also, if they don't care about the story, why the hell would they care about spoilers? Looking into a game to know if it's for you or not has absolutely nothing to do with spoiling the story for said game and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

No I know exactly what you meant, and it is really just a petty excuse to say don't change the story or don't allow players to not do the story. Which is something that has 0 effect on your experience with the game currently. The genre of this game, is an MMORPG it it wouldn't hurt it to treat itself that way sometimes. Sure FF games are known for there stories but when you look at FFXI, it treated itself as an MMORPG while maintaining a rich story that was not forced. Once Again, the suggestions I have made do not prevent people from doing the story, and does not force players to play any certain way, it just opens options to new players which in no means is a bad thing. It is no different than supporting the trust system being added to all previous expansions as that allows new players to play the game as a solo experience and does not detriment other players experience. When games give players more options and more choices they become more appealing to a broader audience.

Also don't try to say the story teaches players how to play, even Yoshi P said it doesn't in the last live letter. Learning how to play is a decision one has to make.

Endgame focus is a cancer that needs to stop.

Everything after the MSQ is end game, so maybe they should just stop releasing patches, get rid of housing, get rid of glamour, roll credits, and put a sign up saying "the end see you again in two years".

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Also, it most certainly does not take months to get to EW. Hyperbole much? I suppose it could if you play a few minutes a day, but that's a bit much to claim.

Two or more weeks perhaps if are willing to "no-life it" as friends sometimes say. Highly not recommended if you are already experiencing the burnout as this is likely to make you quit.

I made this character that you see as my new "lodestone main" around 2 or 3 weeks before Endwalker's original release date of Nov 23rd, did up to the Sastasha unlock quest and stopped and did other random stuff on my other alts until Endwalker released on December 7th, as I wanted to play the game from level 1 to max level as the reworked SMN because why not and also remake this character without having to spend 20 dollars on a fantasia and namechange.

I was planning on purchasing the expansion the 2nd week of January so I blazed through the MSQ as quickly as I could. I skipped every cutscene, every piece of dialogue, I sprinted everywhere, used mounts whenever available, had a friend of mine unsync every single MSQ dungeon and every single MSQ trial. I did around 30 to 60 quests per day, that's all I could stomach doing at any given day otherwise I'd have fallen gravely ill from all the MSQing and slumped over dead at my keyboard.

-With 164 quests in total, 2.0 took 5 or 7 days to get through. It would have been 2 or 3 days longer if the MSQ didn't throw so much exp at you that you become, on average, 5 levels higher than the MSQ.

-With 92 quests, which also includes the 4 mandatory primal quests and the 8 mandatory CT raid quests, 2.X took around 4 or 5 days to get through. Flight makes this part extremely quick to do. Without it it would have taken twice as long and would have caused me to question why I am doing this. Flight also makes doing the CT raid bearable. I did this without flight back when it was mandatory to do for 5.0 and flight had not been added in ARR zones and it was gods awful. It was the worst part of 2.X. Sanding It Down and A Performance for the Ages being the absolute most vile of quests to have to do with or without flight. Those two quests need to be reworked.

After completing 2.X I did spend time grinding GC ranks to start buying survival manuals to start speed-leveling Fisher through ocean fishing so I could cheese the overworld with stealth. Only took a day ocean fishing 4 times to get to level 60.

-With a whopping 94 quests in total, 3.0 was rapid. It took roughly 3 days to get through as the zones are enjoyable to coast around with stealth from Fisher and the quest pacing was alright.

-With 44 quests comes 3.X, same as above. Very quick and enjoyable to do especially with the aether current nerf. I admit I watched several of the cutscenes here.

Now comes, to me, the worst part about the MSQ, Stormblood. Whenever I have to do this expansion for my alts it makes my skin crawl. I would rather do ARR 5 times over than do this expansion's MSQ.

-With a 122 quest count 4.0 took around 7 days to get through. It was long, it was grueling and on several days I either didn't do any questing or did very little.

-With a 40 quest count 4.X ironically takes a long time to do. 5 days here.

I had failed my deadline thanks to Stormblood's slog. But I had finally reached the pinnacle of FF14, Shadowbringers. The expansion with the best pacing, the best story, the only expansion I watched every single cutscene on, prior to making this character.

-With 106 quests, 5.0 was quick work. Took 5 days to get through. Like HW it was enjoyable to go through even though I was speedrunning. Only thing unenjoyable was being forced to do the role quests again.

-With 51 quests, 5.X took 1 day to do.

[Skivvy]

If you did even a semblance of research into this game, and especially if you are familiar with final fantasy as a franchise, you would know this is a story-heavy game from the get go. The real problem is people who hop on bandwagons and just want to play whatever is currently popular rather than finding the right game for them. Because that's why we have so many people coming in and getting filtered by the story. This game has been trending since last year and it's brought with it a wave of FOTM types who just want to be where they percieve everyone else to be. These are not the type of people to have patience for a story game in general. They are oversocialized idiots who just go whereever the wind is blowing.

Researching a game prior to playing it is an alien concept to them. All they think is "Game popular, I play game cuz that's what everyone else is playing!". The opinions of these cretins does not matter and they will not be missed when they are innevitably filtered.

Big yikes. Super glad you're one of the ones that stuck around. :X

[Vryn]

Most of this comes from the fact that many people have friends at end game. They don't want to sit in ARR for months they want to play with their friends where they are in the story. It is a consequence of coming late to the party. I still feel this way still being in shadowbringer while many brazillian friends are progging savage together and hanging out. While I can not be the fill in for their lack of tank, I am still stuck in post shadowbringer. It is a bit of a catch 22 because I take my time through the story, but if the option was there to unlock content and than enjoy the story at my own pace and still get to not be left out. I would do it. That is the reason at least personally.

Though I also don't believe people should rush to fast through leveling. Buying a jump pot will only leave many confused and the process of leveling is needed to get better acquainted with your tool kit. not just have a hotbar fill up with a million skills you have no clue what to do with.

Your friends do have the ability to play with you at any level and level alternative jobs. Friends being at the "end game" is not the same as wow. Since we have the duty roulette, you would be going back through older content anyway, especially when the relic grind comes out, and you are rewarded for helping new players if your friends are not willing to play with you because of an arbitrary gap in progress you might need to get better friends. It seems they are more concerned with their progress than your well being.

I would add though that having the option for a sandbox experience in this game when creating a character would also be a good idea for those who do not like the story and would just like to level, craft, socialise etc.

Some people might not want to be the WoL some might just want to be an adventurer.

[Rilifane]

If you did even a semblance of research into this game, and especially if you are familiar with final fantasy as a franchise, you would know this is a story-heavy game from the get go. The real problem is people who hop on bandwagons and just want to play whatever is currently popular rather than finding the right game for them. Because that's why we have so many people coming in and getting filtered by the story. This game has been trending since last year and it's brought with it a wave of FOTM types who just want to be where they percieve everyone else to be. These are not the type of people to have patience for a story game in general. They are oversocialized idiots who just go whereever the wind is blowing.

Researching a game prior to playing it is an alien concept to them. All they think is "Game popular, I play game cuz that's what everyone else is playing!". The opinions of these cretins does not matter and they will not be missed when they are innevitably filtered.

So everyone that is drawn to FFXIV for other reasons than story or doesn't conduct a thorough research before is a cretin and idiot?
It amazes me how toxic people are towards others that dare to play a game for different reasons than them.

People give MMOs a go because a friend plays and recommends it all the time.
People enjoy starting a game blind all the time.
People enjoy different aspects of a game all the time.

But according to you none of them have a place here.
I know this will sound really, really crazy but... it's okay to not like the story. It's okay to not play FFXIV for the story. It's even okay to be annoyed by absolutely everything being gated behind MSQ. Someone saying "btw FFXIV is story-focused" doesn't mean you instantly have the right idea about just how much is locked behind MSQ and that it dictates your entire leveling process and takes hundreds of hours to complete, especially as a new player that doesn't play efficiently and gets lost easily.
I did enjoy the story for the most part enough to not be annoyed and it also helped that I've started in ARR and thus always did it in more bite-sized steps compared to starting with EW and getting hundreds of hours dumped on me at once.
But if I were to start now, I'm not sure I'd stick around. Not because the story is bad or because I'm an "oversocialized idiot with no patience" but because not having a choice in how I level and knowing I'm locked out of a lot of things for a few hundred hours would eventually drive me off. We're not in ARR anymore where MSQ lock is much shorter. We're in EW and the low level experience isn't terrible. I've replayed the story more than once on alts and I can see why many new players either drop FFXIV completely or take very long breaks because they just can't deal with it all at once.

Your friends do have the ability to play with you at any level and level alternative jobs. Friends being at the "end game" is not the same as wow. Since we have the duty roulette, you would be going back through older content anyway, especially when the relic grind comes out, and you are rewarded for helping new players if your friends are not willing to play with you because of an arbitrary gap in progress you might need to get better friends. It seems they are more concerned with their progress than your well being.

I would add though that having the option for a sandbox experience in this game when creating a character would also be a good idea for those who do not like the story and would just like to level, craft, socialise etc.

Some people might not want to be the WoL some might just want to be an adventurer.

They can join you for roulettes and the occasional MSQ dungeon but let's be honest: the vast majority of leveling is done alone because it's mostly talking to NPCs, watching cut scenes, having the occasional overworld mobs and solo duties. Sure, you can level an alt class and dungeon spam with them but that means pushing back MSQ even further and eventually stopping because you can't do any higher level dungeons.
The leveling process is very much a solo experience, as was intended by SE.
You can do bits and pieces with friends but it's not much. The friends hang out in different content for the most part. That's just the reality of MSQ-locking content.

I would love to have a "regular adventurer" route as an option though. I love this idea and it would go well with the overall theme of the game.
I don't want to be the WoL, the chosen one the whole universe looks up to and the solution to every problem. I'd be quite content with being just another adventurer.

[Mirhd]

We're just going in circles, and since that's the case, I don't see much point continuing. I'll just say a few more things and leave it here.

If you are going to shove words down my throat and misinterpret things I have said at the least take me out to dinner first. The least people could do is read my damn posts before hyper projecting into the sunset for the love of the twelve. I attempted engaging in cordial discussion until I hit my post limit but replies like this do little to make me wish to continue being cordial. Yall act culty sometimes. That is my opinion do with it what you will. Telling people to alter their mindset to enjoy something they clearly are not is.. creepy. Many apologies if that ruffles the jimmies? Amusing though how of alllll the things you could have replied to that I posted you chose that. Huh.

Not once did I put "words in your mouth." Per your other post (not to mention the above) :

This Mia believes the problem with these types is that you are not experiencing the medium the way they did, the correct way. Sounds almost cult like if you begin dissecting it. "No no no you just require the correct mindset young initiate. Once you see things the way we do it will all become clear."

You brought up cults, honey. I suggest you actually watch and/or read a few programs/books on cults by actual experts before throwing the word "cult" around so flippantly in an attempt to sound clever or deflect the arguments of another, as there's nothing "cult-like" in anything I've typed. That's also part of the reason I ignored your posts. The rest is that your "arguments" are just more repeats of what others are saying/have said, and that your tone is incredibly obnoxious. You may think you're being funny or cute, but you just come across as cringy and patronizing. Thumbs up if that's what you're going for, but don't expect others to engage with you in a sincere fashion when you can't be bothered to do the same.

Finally, telling someone they're coming at something with the wrong mindset is not "culty" what-so-ever. This applies to anything in life. Hypothetical scenario here. Say you're in grade school, trying to get on the track-and-field team, but you're only doing it because a friend is on and loves it but you have no real interest in it. It takes up a lot of their time so you don't get to hang out much, but you figured this could be another way to spend time together. You can either a) try to understand why your friend loves it, and maybe even begin to enjoy it yourself as a result, or b) acknowledge that it'll probably just frustrate you, forcing yourself like this, and endeavor to find some other way to spend time with your friend. Both are valid options. What isn't would be insisting your friend should stop doing it, or that the school should stop the program because you feel it "inconveniences you" in some way, which would also ruin things for others.

If someone wants to take this as me insisting skipping the story shouldn't happen... again, that's not what I've said at all. I even mentioned in the Alternate Start thread that I'm fine with people skipping as long as the narrative is maintained. What I'm not fine with is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

snip

Still isn't months, and it wasn't when I did it on new alts (such as my Viera during SHB), either, nor did I no life it. I also didn't think ARR was a drag when I started during HW, which was obviously before they streamlined ARR-post ARR, and I'm hardly the only one. I did feel they could cut some back and forth, which they eventually did, anyway. Helps that, unlike some, I don't think the game starts at "end game", which again, is the wrong mindset to have (This isn't WoW). That's lit throwing out a huge chunk of the game, which is just silly. Not directing this at you necessarily, but I'm throwing it out there since it applies to other posts as well.

snip

Won't go into this too much since I've already said my peace for the most part in earlier posts, so I'll just address one thing.

A lot of the "back and forth" was cut out, though, meaning you've just been referencing old information that's no longer relevant, so they're non-arguments. Further, the "team" thing is a strange complaint to make. You are still on a team, but part of being on a team means at times you'll need to split up or work in smaller groups to cover more ground before coming together to share information afterwards, which makes sense - it's more efficient than having everyone together in one place all the time.

If it wasn't clear before (I mean, I felt I made it quite clear), I don't have a problem with you, I just strongly disagree with your stance. Also, your English is fine, so don't worry about it.

[DeltaCyan]

I have to agree with the OP here. I joined about the same week Heavensward dropped, and had found a nice fc that was very helpful and fun. But they were all at endgame already, and when I found out about this alexander raid from them, I knew that's what I wanted to do. Badly.
It was at this point that the MSQ became this little story I could do while levelling other jobs, to the biggest roadblock I had to overcome if I wanted to have fun with my new friends.
And so I skipped it. I skipped the end of ARR and all of Heavensward. Not because they were bad, they are fantastic stories, but they were in the way. And I still don't regret it. I was able to enjoy my time with friends.

But with the game on its 4th expansion, new players experiencing this must be absolutley dreading how much they are forced to do if they want to play with their friends at endgame.

And saying "oh well this isn't the game for you, don't play it" is a pretty toxic and blatantly incorrect statement. A MMORPG is still MMO. They see the content they want to do, and will enjoy doing. it's right there! All their friends are doing it! That part of the game is exactly for them! But look at all this forced story you have to do first...