New Endwalker dungeon is more of the same cookie-cutter bland dungeon design

[KizuyaKatogami]

Anything that takes away a players choice is forcing..back the drawing board.

They could have a choice though, just make it where you need to have at least 1 or 2 people on each path and there you go. I find it incredibly interesting mainly because it would encourage more coop maneuvers whilst also being randomized each time.

[LalafellDown]

They could have a choice though, just make it where you need to have at least 1 or 2 people on each path and there you go. I find it incredibly interesting mainly because it would encourage more coop maneuvers whilst also being randomized each time.

In 2.0 dungeons we don’t need a tank or healer most times. Range DPS can kite and healer can tank. So a dungeon that splits players would be refreshing. Devs can make it I’m not sure why haven’t they tried it. Add some potion along the way or healing station if needed.

[Kazimere]

Even if they did something as basic as have a hallway branch in 3 directions, letting you choose the order you kill the bosses, maybe the order influencing the mechanics the other bosses left do. Any level of creativity when it comes to dungeon design would be great.

People would just figure out the most optimal way to do it and/or the combination that makes the final boss the easiest and that would be “the way.”

All these ideas are great for novelty, but once the novelty wears of it just becomes annoying.

I’d rather they put more resources into interesting boss fights instead of nooks and crannies to explore for nothing useful in particular.

[Rufalus]

I just don't want them to be the same every run.
Enemies could be somewhat randomized.
Loot could include rare drops.
They've added unique crafting materials in the past like manor varnish. Usually they don't.

I don't see the point if enemy formations are always the same and the chance of getting a special drop is nothing.
If you have people to do hunts with then you can get tomestones faster that way and other rewards besides, leaving no reasons to do a dungeon more than once.

[Karshan]

Maybe the new Criterion dungeon will be the beginning of a solution, in the sense that it will be separate dungeons done for the sake of it.

Right now the main issue, the main reason a lot of people complain and want hallways and not Totorak design is that dungeons are gateways : story is locked behind it, tome cap is locked behind it, etc...
So long as they are seen as a means to an end and not the end itself, they will always be massively looked at as "please make it fast and easy run I just want the reward / what's gated by it". And there is nothing you can do about that feeling.

People WILL frown if you tell them their expert roulette now will be 25 minutes instead of 15 because of a more intricate design. They're a lot less likely to frown however with a new, separate type of dungeon for which the intricate design is the purpose and doesn't impact their relic / tome / xp farm.

[Oextra]

I'll never understand why people complain about normal mode story based content. It's suppose to be entertaining at best. If you want a challenge, move on to extremes, savages, etc. or at the very least ask for an extreme/savage version of dungeons.

[Oextra]

Maybe the new Criterion dungeon will be the beginning of a solution, in the sense that it will be separate dungeons done for the sake of it.

Right now the main issue, the main reason a lot of people complain and want hallways and not Totorak design is that dungeons are gateways : story is locked behind it, tome cap is locked behind it, etc...
So long as they are seen as a means to an end and not the end itself, they will always be massively looked at as "please make it fast and easy run I just want the reward / what's gated by it". And there is nothing you can do about that feeling.

People WILL frown if you tell them their expert roulette now will be 25 minutes instead of 15 because of a more intricate design. They're a lot less likely to frown however with a new, separate type of dungeon for which the intricate design is the purpose and doesn't impact their relic / tome / xp farm.

This entirely. Which is why if people want harder, more interesting dungeons, they should ask for an endgame equivalent hard mode for dungeons. If enough people ask for this instead of complaining about the content, I'm sure SE will eventually listen.

[Leigaon]

The Endwalker dungeons might as well be the same dungeon with a different skin...It's really sad that this seems to be the new norm.

Most dungeons are, not just Endwalker. There aren't many dungeons that aren't just pulling mobs to a spot, aoe them down and take out the boss. The bosses are usually same sort of mechanic that has been visually altered or sometimes renamed. It doesn't matter if the attack is called something like Spinning Attack or a Club Swipe, it's still an AoE in the middle you can run out of the center from and jump back in.

People say they want more from these dungeons, until these dungeons take longer. Or until someone finds that ignoring certain mechanics or paths can be faster.

You could have a dungeon with 3 routes, and someone says "Route 2 is the fastest!" and now that becomes the norm. Now in this example, you have a dungeon with some sort of uniqueness to it (what's down these paths can be whatever you want to create in your head. Constant poison, traps, paralyzing fog etc...) and all that is thrown out the window because you'll almost never go down those other 2 paths since route 2 is now the best.

If you do not put a decent reward to the dungeon, no one is going to want to run it. You can make it so the dungeon drops...glamour like everything else? Minions? Once those rewards are farmed enough by players, the love for that content will go down. Example is watch PVP CC for a while, it's crowded in the Wolves Den.

Wolves Den / PVP isn't a dungeon I know, it is meant to show that if you disconnect the reoccurring prizes (tomes, story etc...) that eventually whatever you do put as an end reward will have a limited life span. Once people have that gearset, the love for the content is going down. Seasonal rewards though, will see you again next season!

I am all for more challenging dungeons. Most will not run a dungeon though just for giggles though and no reward when there's so much else to do in this game that gives rewards. You have to put something at the end of that rainbow, and not just a pat on the back and a pocket full of dreams.

If you put in tomes, you're back to where this thread started. If you put anything else in there, then the dungeon will get spammed and then dropped like a sack of bricks. Put in multiple / alternative routes? Someone in YouTube land will convince everyone to do the fastest route possible. And we circle back. If you mix and match, then you have a bit longer of a lifespan.

So which would the player base be less annoyed with..rolling their eyes knowing they're doing a dungeon for the 400th time for a few tomes or a new fresh dungeon that takes longer, has all the bells and whistles of fun and is just a footnote no one runes in a year and never used again?

Anyways, good luck to you all! I hope you get the challenging dungeon content and it turns out to be everything dreams are made of!

[ssunny2008]

This entirely. Which is why if people want harder, more interesting dungeons, they should ask for an endgame equivalent hard mode for dungeons. If enough people ask for this instead of complaining about the content, I'm sure SE will eventually listen.

SE won´t listen. And sadly some poeple here actually debate against such kind of content. "Fast and easy" is mandatory, not a better gaming-experience.

But seriously, EX and savage is a joke and not even a great raiding experience. You spawn on a platform and perform a choreography, that´s it. No matter how stale dungeons become, the pathing, little puzzles and other stuff, raiding as you know from other games are a far better experience overall, unless the game is called FF14 and every fcking class just spams that 3 AOE buttons to kill everything. (Healers just 1 i guess...)

[KazumaFaemura]

I'll never understand why people complain about normal mode story based content. It's suppose to be entertaining at best. If you want a challenge, move on to extremes, savages, etc. or at the very least ask for an extreme/savage version of dungeons.

Because not everyone is interested in Extremes or Savages. Most people just want to do something difficult with smaller parties of friends etc.