The Devs aren't your personal friends and valid criticism isn't "harrassment"

[LittleImp]

But the person isn't claiming that you literally cannot ever criticize the devs.

Their next reply even said:

You're pretty much just highlighting how hard these types of people are acting in bad faith. They rewrite and mischaracterize the words of otherwise harmless opposition, pivot their own positions on a dime, and occupy positions simply because they are convenient to their goals instead of being consistent and honest about their actual beliefs.

No one is going to come out and outright state that they are engaging in bad faith tactics. To believe so would be naïve, and leave you extremely vulnerable to the constant use of dog-whistles and plausible deniability tactics that characterize so much discourse these days.

You do realize you're not allowed to single people out like this. Correct. And it's subject to a ban

What a bizarre hill to die on. Are you an alt of that OP?

[Kolsykol]

In the end of the day I think most people can agree that death threats aren't okay.
But I also think that people are being quite silly if they can't understand that how they give criticism actually matters too.

A lot of you wouldn't read and take your own criticism seriously if you were on the other side, if you're going to give criticism then actually consider how you'd receive it yourself too.
I don't think that anyone is actually against or have a problem with actual calm and reasonable criticism either.
The problem is when it's no longer criticism and it's just like 80% about insulting the devs, understand that CM's and people in charge of collecting feedback aren't going to actually take that seriously they're going to ignore it.
And that's a perfectly human response and it's not that hard to believe that if it was your job and you had to go over so many posts every day that you'd just read the first sentence and then go '' ok another one of those '' and then keep scrolling.
If you want your criticism to be heard and actually make it to the devs then you have to practice some self-control too.

I think that this is something that actually happens quite frequently in gaming.
People who take it to 11 and are just being overall incredibly rude and aggressive drowns out the criticism and it just never ends up being taken seriously.
Even if you pay for something it doesn't mean you can talk to people however you want if you ate at a restaurant and didn't like something about the food even if you gave a big tip you can't expect them to take it seriously if you called the chef an idiot who can't cook for shit.
It doesn't somehow entitle you to act and say whatever you want.

I think that because this is the internet people forget this, people on this forum would never talk the way they do to others here irl.
If they actually got to say their criticism directly to Yoshi P they'd suddenly behave.

[AziraSyuren]

The "death threats" bit was related to someone on the Japanese forums. I believe someone mailed a developer a knife after raging about SAM changes. That incident is what Yoshi was talking about.

Yeah, every time I hear about death threats, they're coming from JP players. NA players then proceed to either use them to deflect criticism or think they're just an excuse and/or not happening at all. Happens every time.

[CrownySuccubus]

The OP started the thread with the title and body of the post asking people to stop "being mean" and harassing the devs.

Aveyond-dreams responded with the implication that the OP was complaining about what is "reasonable means" of holding the devs accountable.

Eara responds with the assumption that that Aveyond was equivocating "death threats" (a form of harassment) with "reasonable means".

At best, this was a case of three people who all agree that criticism is fine and death threats are not, and are simply talking past each other.

At worst, these three people have different ideas of what "reasonable means" entails. Giving the benefit of the doubt, it seems Eara's concern was because Aveyond attempted to rebut the OP's claims that the devs are being harassed with the statement "reasonable means must be employed", that Aveyond was conflating those two things as a bad faith tactic. (I'm not a mind-reader, but that's what Eara's reply reads like they assumed.) If Eara was wrong, then the OP's point and the argument of harassment (including threats) being too far still stands.

Either way, they were definitely NOT saying anything like, "Since the devs are getting death threats, then no one can criticize them anymore, ever."

[Bad_Luck]

Just because you don’t see death threats doesn’t mean much. Also, what’s ‘valid’ in your eyes doesn’t matter to anybody else because that’s just your opinion man.

[CodeAvellus]

I love how everyone loves the story that 1.0 was a really bad game but after all criticism they changed it for a better game, but now we have to say sorry before complaining about the game.

I'll not be surprised if this game becomes an WOW in the next years. Seems that paying the subscription every month is not enough to complain about the game.

[Batbrat]

All the posts with the 'just because you dont see it-' jfc
You're literally hallucinating 'what if' red herrings all to stop people from voicing their concerns. Why again?? Because you see these paid employees as your personal best friends or something?? I just don't understand it. You don't think any of this should be addressed or fixed at all? Because you headcanonn going on coffee dates with them after livestreams or something? Do you think you're dating?? What's going on here. What is this out of body experience you must be having to explain why paying customers communicating problems to their service provider is wrong and needs to stop.

How many times do people have to repeat that no one wishes devs or anyone any ill will? Or rather, that the majority of us dont? Is this another "not all men" thing where before we say anything at all, we have to constantly disclaim "not all customers" before we try to explain why we dislike what's happening to us? Like can you get a grip for about 8 seconds here?
Here, let me write it in a format that will surely cause nobody tears.

I wish all the devs a beautiful day and a wonderful life, the housing was horrific.
Yoshi is one of my favorite game directors and I love the rings he wears, that was the most disrespectful stream and subsequent release to hrothgars I think I've ever seen in my mmo life.
The team behind XIV is talented and unlike anything we've ever seen before, they're making jobs braindead and that's troubling.
If I could, I'd marry each and every one of them yoshi included oh kiss me oh kiss me, the decisions lately have been complete disasters and rushed disasters at that. There's no way the ward thing should have been a been a last minute detail that people learned nearly the night before patch day-I say this on one knee with a ring in my hand.
As I hang my 5th XIV poster on my wall in my Scions of the seventh dawn shirt with Footfalls playing softly in the background, I cannot help but glance back at my screen and wonder why these latest changes were so genuinely terrible.

Alright now who did I traumatize. Go on, point out the death threat. I know someone will imagine it's there, victim complexes come in all shapes and sizes. Like jeez. If someone says something nutty, everyones been telling them to shove it. But a few nutters doesnt mean everyone needs to stop. People are doing the right thing to communicate to the devs how they feel. When you work in the world of art, you know that. Feedback is everything. Feedback is paramount. Critique is what leads you to greatness. Does it always feel good? No way. No way, it sucks. But to cross your arms and say critique isnt allowed? You might as well just quit, because you're not cut out for it. If you want to be great, you have to learn how to listen. If that first version of XIV didnt get blown a new buttflap, the majority of us wouldnt even be here right now.

[Shin96]

Back in the day, when I bought a game I received the experience I was looking for. Even if not, no one was up in arms when I said this game sucks lol.

People put up with waaaaay too much nowadays. Have a spine, one not made out of jello would be good. If you like stuff good for you, but that doesn't mean it goes for everyone else.

[MsQi]

Just because you don’t see death threats doesn’t mean much. Also, what’s ‘valid’ in your eyes doesn’t matter to anybody else because that’s just your opinion man.

Stop threatening me.

[Shibi]

As Divinemights said back in January

You guys do realize the target group that Yoship is referring to are those Japanese extreme players who mailed knife blade as threat right?
These guys are the worst and can even go as far as burning down an anime studio.
These are the group that constantly making verbal threat and stalking.
He is not referring to the snowflakes who always using subscription as threat, those are just sheeps.
He is talking about the real wolves here.

So, come on guys, stop with pretending the knife is due to SAM changes, or that there is even one death threat on the forums. You are letting your imaginations get away from you in some sort of insane group hysteria.