The Devs aren't your personal friends and valid criticism isn't "harrassment"

[EcoReck]

The recent issues such as housing, hrothgars, healing, or lack of job depth are all valid points of concern.

"But death threats" what death threats? This always gets brought up in this discussion when people in the community have issues with something in the game, yet there is never any of these type of comments in criticism thread. It's a baseless scapegoat that is constantly used to dismiss points of discussion and criticism.

These people need to stop taking these valid points of criticism as a personal attack to themselves nor do they need to find every excuse to let them slide. We are paying for a service and they are paid to provide a service.

[MellowMink]

I have no doubt that at least some death threats exist, and those should definitely be taken seriously, including by company representatives and members of law enforcement who should be readily enforcing rules and laws against any threats. Anyone saying that threats don't happen period is neither helpful nor realistic.

Fortunately, at least on the forums, there seems to be a much larger amount of civil and constructive criticism that I’ve seen than threats or harassment, and I hope that’s all taken into account by community managers or developers who study these forums to compile player feedback; more civil perspectives shared by paying customers is important when improving an ongoing product. Equating civil criticism with genuine harassment isn’t fair, yet I hope moderators tackle the latter for sure; it needs to be readily addressed.

[Kaurhz]

I'm just going to quote Albert Mehrabian here:

it’s not what you say it’s the way that you say it.

Whether they are valid criticisms or not is one matter. Whether those criticisms are adequately communicated without them turning abrasive is another situation entirely. For me personally, it is not a matter of defending anyone or anything but simply put calling people lazy or incompetent, or stating that they should be fired is not conducive to a productive conversation or debate.

EDIT: I sympathize, I really do for people that don't get what they want, but peoples' issues do not preclude basic human decency when referring to an individual. If it has gotten as bad wherein the developer has had to go on record about it then I think it's a telling sign that some people just aren't simply expressing some critique of the game itself.

Personally, if I were a new player looking to get into the game, I would say had I seen the forum, I would be dissuaded more by how people express themselves on here than the state of the game itself. Which is an issue in and of itself.

[Packetdancer]

"But death threats" what death threats?

I think it also depends on what you define as "death threat". A person who posts "THIS WAS A CRIME AND I HOPE WHOEVER WROTE THE LOTTERY CODE GETS RUN OVER BY A TRAIN" or "I hope whoever let this get through QA catches COVID and their whole family dies" or whatnot is likely spewing angry hyperbole and definitely not making an active death threat, but I can promise you that it still doesn't feel good to encounter those as one of the devs for whom train-related death is being wished.

And those posts do exist. I haven't seen any on the official forums, thankfully, but you do not have to search terribly far in other parts of the internet to find examples of them.

And, I mean... anything else aside, while anger is understandable, those sort of venomous posts are counter-productive to folks who have actual, rational feedback like "Please give us an explanation of exactly how this went wrong, both for transparency and because doing the sort of investigation writing a thing like that needs will help you fix your process so stuff like this doesn't happen" or "Considering many of us already removed our money from the placards before you announced the lottery would be re-run after it's fixed and thus no longer have active bids in, it feels like it might be more fair to reset any remaining lotteries and let everyone bid again" or whatever.

In my own past game development experience, when I encountered a thread containing wishes for violent death upon team members, I know I personally just noped the heck out even if I knew said venom was hyperbole. Which is, I think, understandable... but did also mean if there was useful feedback in the thread somewhere later than the "I HOPE YOUR DOG IS RUN OVER BY A CAR AND DIES" type stuff, I also ended up noping out on those useful posts as a result.

[Arkanis_Linvail]

"Im getting death threats" is often something used by people on social media as a way of getting people to stop attacking them. We've all seen it where someone says or does something stupid, is criticised for it and then claims to be recieving death threats so now they're the real victim who we should all feel sorry for.

As is always the case you should ask to see the reciepts. If someone is is being attacked and getting threats of violence then it should be easy to prove. I think we can all say we condemn threats of violence over something so silly as a game. To be honest I've seen more of a fanboy cult who so passionately defend the devs despite any issues in the game and denounce anyone who dares criticise it as "hate". We dont hate the game, we're paying for and paying the bloody thing aren't we? That plus theres a definite atmosphere of "I'm alright Jack" on here at times. Look I get it, bugs X, Y and Z didnt affect you and I'm happy for you truly I am but it doesnt mean those who are affected should just be shooed off and their criticisms labelled as invalid. Just because something isnt an issue for you doesnt mean its not an issue for other people and saying its an issue for them doesnt make them the villians for daring to speak ill of the game.

It has been said this game has a good community. Is that true or is it only because those who experiences the games problems (no, the game is not perfect) are just drowned out by the rampant fanboyism of those who think the sun sets when the devs sit down?

Death threat - I hate John Smith and I'm going to run him over with my car.
Being a jerk - I hate John Smith and would laugh my ass off if he got ran over by a car.
Call to action - I hate John Smith and will pay good money to whoever runs him over with their car.

[CrownySuccubus]

Asking to "see the receipts" when someone calls for a stop to death threats isn't reasonable. It really does nothing to address the issue.

The fact remains that if you see someone giving death threats (or "being a jerk" or "making a call to action" or whatever else we want to call it), then call that person out, report that person and get them out of the community as fast as possible. The amount of death threats the person got before that doesn't matter.

[Raim]

Asking to "see the receipts" when someone calls for a stop to death threats isn't reasonable. It really does nothing to address the issue.

The fact remains that if you see someone giving death threats (or "being a jerk" or "making a call to action" or whatever else we want to call it), then call that person out, report that person and get them out of the community as fast as possible. The amount of death threats the person got before that doesn't matter.

No because people keep using this as a scapegoat to avert legitimate criticism. Nobody has seen any of what is claimed, but yet its being used to set the tone for the discussion going forward. Its trying to make the people complaining look bad.

[Arkanis_Linvail]

Asking to "see the receipts" when someone calls for a stop to death threats isn't reasonable. It really does nothing to address the issue.

The fact remains that if you see someone giving death threats (or "being a jerk" or "making a call to action" or whatever else we want to call it), then call that person out, report that person and get them out of the community as fast as possible. The amount of death threats the person got before that doesn't matter.

Yes it is: it proves those death threats are actually happening and aren't just being used as an excuse to cast those who criticise the mistakes in this game as being worse than they actually are. If you want to call someone out for death threats (note that death threats, calls to action and just being a jerk arent the same thing) then first it has to be proven they're actually sending death threats. If you want someone banned then you have to prove they've done something worthy of that ban. You cant just say "Someone criticised a bug in the game? Yeah well ban them because death threats!"

"Death threats are happening, asking for evidence of that does nothing to stop it" isnt particularly strong logic. Look, I know if you search hard enough you'll find at least 1 unhinged lunatic but to act like its more common than not and used to shut down people who are criticising the games problems is completely the wrong way to go about it as well.

[Vahlnir]

Yes it is: it proves those death threats are actually happening and aren't just being used as an excuse to cast those who criticise the mistakes in this game as being worse than they actually are. If you want to call someone out for death threats (note that death threats, calls to action and just being a jerk arent the same thing) then first it has to be proven they're actually sending death threats. If you want someone banned then you have to prove they've done something worthy of that ban. You cant just say "Someone criticised a bug in the game? Yeah well ban them because death threats!"

Yep. I'd want to know if they were happening too. This isn't a small accusation to make, nor is it appropriate for anything related to a video game. I'm unhappy with a lot of things right now, but I would never wish for someone to lose their job, come to harm or be the recipient of a death threat. That is just...childish. And it means that whoever is making threats of this nature are unstable in some way or another.

[CrownySuccubus]

No because people keep using this as a scapegoat to avert legitimate criticism. Nobody has seen any of what is claimed, but yet its being used to set the tone for the discussion going forward. Its trying to make the people complaining look bad.

Yes it is: it proves those death threats are actually happening and aren't just being used as an excuse to cast those who criticise the mistakes in this game as being worse than they actually are. [...] "Someone criticised a bug in the game? Yeah well ban them because death threats!"

Please show me four examples of someone on these forums saying "X person has received death threats, so do not ever criticize anything about them ever again". I'll refrain from commenting further until that is provided.

If you want to call someone out for death threats (note that death threats, calls to action and just being a jerk arent the same thing)

Technically, yes. But by definition, these are all behaviors that should be called out and punished, correct? Perhaps not immediately with bans, but with some sort of method of stopping it, right?