6.1 Ninja just doesn't feel good to play.

[aloneatsea]

I don't really mind it either but I also don't mind Meisui, I think it feels good to weave and it's free damage.
I just meant if they had to do something with Meisui supposedly since people were talking about it.
I don't consider it bloat I think people throw that word around far too much and easily... I think it does add something to the rotation and is a unique skill.

Button bloat to me is stuff like Shoha 1 and 2 being separate.

Meisui, in my opinion, enables the usage of TCJ in a way that feels natural [i.e. using a powerful cooldown within Trick Attack]. However, I do understand that those who've played without Meisui might find it's inclusion stifling, as it essentially dictates a correct way to use TCJ in single-target. I still think it's a matter of improper balancing of mudras within TCJ, as opposed to a problem with the button itself. That said, I think it'd be more interesting if Meisui itself was an attack that could only be executed under the effects of Suiton, as opposed to a Ninki gainer. Same effect, but saves a weaving slot, and allows for a cool water-based animation.


But this is all moot while Mug remains the way that it is. Adjusting Meisui would not, in my opinion, fix the largest problem with 6.1 Ninja. I'm desperately asking for Trick Attack to return to being a 1-minute party buff...

[Kolsykol]

Meisui, in my opinion, enables the usage of TCJ in a way that feels natural [i.e. using a powerful cooldown within Trick Attack]. However, I do understand that those who've played without Meisui might find it's inclusion stifling, as it essentially dictates a correct way to use TCJ in single-target. I still think it's a matter of improper balancing of mudras within TCJ, as opposed to a problem with the button itself. That said, I think it'd be more interesting if Meisui itself was an attack that could only be executed under the effects of Suiton, as opposed to a Ninki gainer. Same effect, but saves a weaving slot, and allows for a cool water-based animation.


But this is all moot while Mug remains the way that it is. Adjusting Meisui would not, in my opinion, fix the largest problem with 6.1 Ninja. I'm desperately asking for Trick Attack to return to being a 1-minute party buff...

Yeah now I just dunno what the point on a gameplay level is to play NIN anymore.
MNK and RPR have defensive utility on top of DPS utility, their DPS utility also is more interesting with Chakra + Plentiful Harvest.
I'd even say that DRG has more interesting and fun DPS buffs, the 60s was all NIN had left ( especially looking back at all we've lost over the years )...

I just dunno what the point is anymore, NIN doesn't share gear with anything either so you're gimping yourself in that regard too.
I just feel like a worse MNK with less fun utility than RPR and DRG.

I mean are we still gonna be alone with Scouting gear too?
I was under the impression that this had a lot to do with our utility too which has only become less and less true with time and now it's a non-factor.

[SwissArmyKnife]

I apologize for temporarily derailing the conversation, but this seems like as good a place as any to tag on to let the devs know that as an entirely mediocre NIN player, my problem still is, and continues to be, that if you touch anything besides Throwing Knives, jutsu, or oGCDs, your raiju stacks go away.

Yes, it's nice that Throwing Knives doesn't reset Raiju, so we're not standing at range doing piss-all. And Raiju being a combo ability in and of itself didn't seem like a problem either. But what I saw was a problem levelling to 90 at launch, and still continues to be a problem, is that the game has drilled it into the player over the past 45 levels, that you never let Huton drop.

Reaching for a different button to refresh Huton, whether it's Huraijin (I'm not even sure why Huraijin exists, honestly, if you don't let it drop, you never need to use it. In fact, I kind of view hitting Huraijin as a failing on my part) or Armor Crush pissing away Raiju stacks feels REALLY bad.

Pulling on my main job: WAR doesn't lose its IR stacks if you hit non-Fell Cleave/non-Decimate buttons, why can't NIN get the same treatment for Raiju? This one change would have me come right back to NIN instead of trying to find a new melee job to play.

[Kolsykol]

I apologize for temporarily derailing the conversation, but this seems like as good a place as any to tag on to let the devs know that as an entirely mediocre NIN player, my problem still is, and continues to be, that if you touch anything besides Throwing Knives, jutsu, or oGCDs, your raiju stacks go away.

Yes, it's nice that Throwing Knives doesn't reset Raiju, so we're not standing at range doing piss-all. And Raiju being a combo ability in and of itself didn't seem like a problem either. But what I saw was a problem levelling to 90 at launch, and still continues to be a problem, is that the game has drilled it into the player over the past 45 levels, that you never let Huton drop.

Reaching for a different button to refresh Huton, whether it's Huraijin (I'm not even sure why Huraijin exists, honestly, if you don't let it drop, you never need to use it. In fact, I kind of view hitting Huraijin as a failing on my part) or Armor Crush pissing away Raiju stacks feels REALLY bad.

Pulling on my main job: WAR doesn't lose its IR stacks if you hit non-Fell Cleave/non-Decimate buttons, why can't NIN get the same treatment for Raiju? This one change would have me come right back to NIN instead of trying to find a new melee job to play.

Raiju is a l2p issue, but it's still interesting that they touched TA before that when not losing Raiju stacks is a pretty heavily requested thing.

Edit: Similarly to Mudras, while again yes it's a l2p issue ( used to be a ping issue with Mudras too ).
It's still a bit sucky that NIN suffers so much more for mistakes than others.

[Manofpassion]

While I don't think raiju stacks are too big of a deal, it is strange that ninja is being punished for this when no other classes are. If I used hard slash during delirium/blood weapon, I don't lose either stack. Why is only ninja being punished? I am unsure. It really does feel like ew is the bully ninja expansion.

[AoifeAogane]

Agreed it feels joyless. I also don't care about the numbers. Doing the trick attack combo to give the entire raid a damage buff has big emotional, "you get a car, and you get a car, and..." energy to it. And it is a suitable pay off to a complex series of button pushes. Reducing that to simply remembering to tap mug every two minutes has sucked a lot of fun out of the rotation.

I very much want the devs to walk back these changes. They have "fixed" a problem that as far as I am aware, never existed.

[aloneatsea]

Agreed it feels joyless. I also don't care about the numbers. Doing the trick attack combo to give the entire raid a damage buff has big emotional, "you get a car, and you get a car, and..." energy to it. And it is a suitable pay off to a complex series of button pushes. Reducing that to simply remembering to tap mug every two minutes has sucked a lot of fun out of the rotation.

I very much want the devs to walk back these changes. They have "fixed" a problem that as far as I am aware, never existed.

I strongly agree. When I first started playing 14, I wanted to play a 'support' type of class that could also do damage. My friends gave me the choice beten Bard or Ninja -- and I picked Ninja, as it sounded cooler. I specifically picked Ninja because it provided a large buff to the party. The fact that it was incredibly fun to play was a huge bonus on top of that. Let me make that clear.


I like the fact that a lot of the damage I bring as a Ninja comes from buffing other players.


Initially I thought that we at the least still had the strongest party buff in the game, but we don't. We share that title with Monk! Since when was Monk known for being the party-buff melee? What a joke. Please restore Trick Attack to being a one-minute party buff.

[Caldra]

Ok after all these negative comments, that I can't comprehend, I have to say something so SE doesn't do something stupid!

I main Ninja and played it since shadowbringers, after 6.0 ninja felt really bad!
It got better with the next couple of buffs but ultimately I swapped roles to Samurai!

Now after 6.1 dropped I instantly came back to Ninja! (Also partly because of the Sam changes)
And after testing it out, I am overwhelmed by how much better Ninja is now!

Mug felt like a complete useless spell that just gave you one extra bhava but now it's a very important raid buff and has a purpose!

Trick attack is also way better now, as it gives you a meaningful personal dmg boost on top! This was very much needed!

Before, I felt like Ninja was only tolerated in groups as your trick attack bitch,
but now you are a serious dmg dealer, that can finally keep up with reaper and other melee dps!

Very good changes! Keep up the good work square enix!

[Darksoul9669]

Gonna hard disagree on moving the party-wide back to TA. Unless we just rename mug. That’s literally the only good change they’ve made since post 6.0. I think I’ll stick with not having drift back and providing a better partywide.

[Darksoul9669]

While I don't think raiju stacks are too big of a deal, it is strange that ninja is being punished for this when no other classes are. If I used hard slash during delirium/blood weapon, I don't lose either stack. Why is only ninja being punished? I am unsure. It really does feel like ew is the bully ninja expansion.

Ninja is far from the only one. This happens with most proc/combos. Look at reaper. The only reason it ever felt punishing with NIN was when it was a movement ability too and couldn’t be used during Zodiark spins or putting you too far into a crystal during lightwaves. Which you could just adjust for.