Results 1 to 10 of 73

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Jojoya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    9,091
    Character
    Jojoya Joya
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Johners View Post
    Banning in waves is often the strategy other MMOs use. It has worked relatively well for Blizzard that used ban waves psychology. Enough players felt like they got away with it, got attached to having their cheated stuff and then banned them while removing it. Worked really well during Warlords of Draenor when there were several major ban waves during that expansion in the run up to the release of Legion.
    You're assuming only lazy players bot. Ban waves work well for them but they're not the only ones botting.

    Most botting is RMT and a ban wave isn't going to deter them. They've got no problem starting over because it's how they make money and the new account is just an operating expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrystofer View Post
    That is false. Bots always had similar movement and you can tell who is a bot if you observe them for a bit. Not only that but if you teleport a player to the GM jail after you become suspicious of them you can pretty much confirm that they are botting with confidence.

    If you want to fight botting you have to make the cost of purchasing accounts higher than the profit. Otherwise, being banned for botting is just a cost of ''doing business''. If you ban bots every few months you will NEVER EVER solve the problem this way because it will still be profitable.

    The reason why they are not taking action is that they are cutting corners with CS. CS is expensive and investigating reports manually is time-consuming. In WoW classic I was banned for botting, I didn't bot. They used an algorithm to flag accounts as suspicious and banned them.
    Plenty of legitimate players got banned but that was acceptable collateral damage because CS would be more expensive.
    Pang Tong was correct about it being an arms race. That's part of why Blizzard ban waves are so far apart - they study the bot behavior to develop counter measures. Once they're ready to deploy the counter measures, they do the ban wave. The bot programmers then set up their new accounts, figure out what the counter measure was and find a new way around it. What's achieved through code can be circumvented by other code.

    Making the cost of purchasing accounts higher than the profit has the potential to drive legitimate players out of the game. They're going to lose a lot of players if subscription prices were jacked up to $100/mo. That's the balancing act that game developers face - disrupting the bots without negatively impacting the genuine player experience.

    If a game company wants to get rid of RMT and its bots, it needs to focus on the RMT customer. RMT stays in business because there's no penalty to being a buyer. SE can shut down one set of RMT seller accounts and another one will appear because the customer still has money they want to spend.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kes13a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,844
    Character
    Etherea Stormaire
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    If a game company wants to get rid of RMT and its bots, it needs to focus on the RMT customer. RMT stays in business because there's no penalty to being a buyer. SE can shut down one set of RMT seller accounts and another one will appear because the customer still has money they want to spend.
    I agree. ban the buyers. start with a 14 day ban for the first offense and perma for the second.

    fairly sure their buyer pool would quickly empty once that got around the player base
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    The bot programmers then set up their new accounts, figure out what the counter measure was and find a new way around it. What's achieved through code can be circumvented by other code..
    The bot countermeasures are simply

    Set up a new email and a new account
    Set up a new payment method
    Run leveling script to desired level
    Continue botting as normal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennah View Post
    Can you imagine how much things would cost if everyone had to gather their own crystals and aethersand, instead of bots constantly minting them by the thousands?
    IMHO Crystals should have went away a long time ago as they're nothing more than bot farms at this point.
    (0)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  4. #4
    Player
    UkcsAlias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    776
    Character
    Aergrael Iyrnrael
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    They've got no problem starting over because it's how they make money and the new account is just an operating expense.
    The moment they get banned faster than they can get value out of their bots, operating expenses will make them stop.

    The problem in MMOs is mainly that those botters are actualy still bringing in money. And it costs money to make them stop (both in personel costs and losing those subscriptions). This generaly means that you dont want them to stop entirely, you only want to disrupt them in such way you can maximize their expenses while having them disrupt less. Sure, depending on the dev they might go for the more extreme method, but note that this then always will cost money.

    You can ofcourse have some AI systems for detection, which for some bot things can be effective and often is a good way to push their expenses up (which they then cannot as effectively counter, because of quicker bot detection). But in the end, you cant realy win this fight anyway. Botters will just make their bots more effective at dodging detection, often with just reduced productivity, but as long as they still make profit at low effort, they wont care.
    (0)