6.1 Samurai: the Kaiten removal was the right choice but it's not enough

[SeverianLyonesse]

Personally since I opened the thread i started to change my mind just by confronting my opinion with the rest of the job playerbase: I found out that a lot of people loved the flavour aspect of the skill, and I agree with the fact that Tsubbame Gaeshi is even more useless than I thought Kaiten was.

OH HELLO FRIEND. I WILL DEFEND YOU NOW.

Everyone leave her alone. She has come around.

[Leemon]

I'm glad that you've finally seen the majority of how we feel about Kaiten and why we like it so much. It's a problematic thing when they take away an iconic ability like kleptomaniac grabbing stuff from a department store just so they can 'build upon the job easier later'. Instead, they should try their best to build upon what they havr and what we like so much, and when that fail they need to come clean and say it before actually making the change.

In the end of the day, FF is just one of myriad games that serve a purpose: to have fun NOW. People don't need yo wait 4 months or even 2 years to have fun now. If someone doesn't like it a little bit too much, they'll just leave for another prospectful game. It doesn't even have to be MMO, since FF is looking less and less of an MMO with this oversimplification and less reliant of social aspect when you're actually doing the battle content.

Removing Kaiten is to remove the fun NOW. And that's one straw that broke my camel's back. This is my last sub and honestly I feel sorry for my fellow SAMs that's currently lost playing dumbed down job

[BrokentoothMarch]

Calling Kaiten "useless" while Tsubame-Gaeshi is still there being even MORE flavorless and parasitic.

Careful. Shoha II is starting to sweat.

[IdowhatIwant]

I don't get why you all seem to feel the need to mock me. I'm not a paladin of over-simplification nor I have ever mentioned ability or button bloat. Let's discuss: a lot of people in here stated the reasons why they think Kaiten was useful and impactful.

Personally since I opened the thread i started to change my mind just by confronting my opinion with the rest of the job playerbase: I found out that a lot of people loved the flavour aspect of the skill, and I agree with the fact that Tsubbame Gaeshi is even more useless than I thought Kaiten was.

I don't understand what's the matter behind that form of bullying that rules in the official forums.

Victim card while bowing out of your previous stance. Have a spine you.

If kaiten was removed and replaced, that would be one thing. As it is, it was a poor decision. In this iteration it should have been use to make iajutsu and ogi crit until it is removed and replaced later. This skill was not removed because of button bloat, it was removed cause the devs did not know how to proceed with the class with this skill in its current state. I don't know it the crit would have put it in a better state for there vision. They really need to just come out and say what the hell they want to do with classes as well as the mention crit synergy was a problem they wish to address as well.

I agree. IMO SAM needs to be reworked into something like WHM where you have a DOT and a single button to do damage. Pressing too many buttons is just the absolute worst and makes for gameplay that is too hard for me.

Choose your words carefully. There are people that do believe this. You don't want to be reworked like the other poor jobs that were.

Yoshi P will come in and give you a drop kick and yell "This is new Samurai.... Please look forward to it" and you will fall into the pit of despair like so many other poor jobs have.

[Stasya]

Careful. Shoha II is starting to sweat.

They wont remove Shoha 2, they spend months working on that ability, it's one of the reasons endwalker was delayed

[SeverianLyonesse]

Careful. Shoha II is starting to sweat.

Shoha II is middling. It is unnecessary and bloaty to a degree, but it does still have a distinct function with distinct animations.

Tsubame-Gaeshi is a lazy POS. It has no flavor, it is directly contradictory to SAM's job identity, and it has no unique animation. There is absolutely no reason why Tsubame-Gaeshi couldn't be completely replaced with an actual follow-up ability with its own animation like say Shoha II.

I will die on this hill.

[CapricaLangley]

Victim card while bowing out of your previous stance. Have a spine you.

I just want to discuss with other Samurai Players about a mechanic that got removed from a damn MMO video game. You have zero respect. You have fun bullying people in a video-game forum? If that's having a spine I'm glad I don't have one.

[Stasya]

I just want to discuss with other Samurai Players about a mechanic that got removed from a damn MMO video game. You have zero respect. You have fun bullying people in a video-game forum? If that's having a spine I'm glad I don't have one.

You came here to gloat about destroying SAM and pretend that you play this class. Even for casuals these changes are insult. You go dungeon and see always same numbers because of auto crit, not to mention weird cone -> aoe change for no reason. You don't have less buttons to press, even in dungeon you can notice how much game forces you to use shinten/kyuten because it is only kenki spender ability.

After a while even casual player can notice that at the very least removing kaiten is wrong move.

[CapricaLangley]

You came here to gloat about destroying SAM and pretend that you play this class. Even for casuals these changes are insult. You go dungeon and see always same numbers because of auto crit, not to mention weird cone -> aoe change for no reason. You don't have less buttons to press, even in dungeon you can notice how much game forces you to use shinten/kyuten because it is only kenki spender ability.

After a while even casual player can notice that at the very least removing kaiten is wrong move.

So it's forbidden to me to have an opinion? I should hide in a closet because if I say what I think about the class I'll be insulted by people who doesn't have the same opinion? Attack my ideas, don't attack me. You act like it's my fault being insulted every two posts because I don't mind the skill from the MMO FFXIV Kaiten being removed.

[MxBroccoli]

Lets break down how you are wrong with this statement:

Kaiten was basically useless from a game design and gameplay perspective. If you use something every single time before a specific skill, it's better to just remove it. In my opinion it was a good "flavour" skill but clearly unnecessary when taking into account the whole rotation.

it would be right if it was like that which is not the case, the kenki gauge is a ressource to be managed and you use it before every iaijutsu IF you managed that resource right, the 2 cost of kaiten and shinten make it have a decision making aspect to the gauge.

now, places where this logic do apply are ikishoten into ogi namikiri, they are just a sequence of buttons and could be crammed into a single one, Iaijutsu and tsubame, they did it to ogi namikiri and there is no reason to not have been done to Iaijutsu, shifu > Kasha and Jinpu > Gekko, again, you can't do gekko nor kasha without its predecessor GCD without losing major potency and benefits.

This change was absurd because they were trying to address a problem that was not there to begin with in the most harmful way possible, they removed the entire decision making aspect of the class while not addressing the issue at all, they changed the only thing that would make no difference towards the problems they were aiming at.

You yourself came to this conclusion but somehow sided with kenki being an issue

But why did I say that the change is not enough? Because in my opinion the removal of Kaiten raised the curtain on the real problem with Samurai, which is Kenki. Kenki now feels like a useless resource because it basically had just a couple functions and lost it's primary one.

being against class homogenization and in favor of removing a major class defining feature feels odd, Kaiten was at the very least your bunny in ninja terms, if you did not manage the resource right you would not have it and that was a big influence on your damage, they can remove it and the class damage will be adjusted to be the same, but it in return requires less skill and now feels less rewarding when you do your Iaijutsu.

If we boil down to sequences being simplified we can end up with an autobattling system and you just avoid boss mechanics and try to stay in melee range, game design is balancing risk and reward, which both were disregarded with this change.