New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[Denji]

The moderator has received the feedback they asked for.

The feedback most of us gave isn't about haircuts at all.



Well, what's weird is what was I heard you say was:



Now, I didn't hear of anyone working on either Viera or Hrothgar before the Zepla video came out so I assumed you hoped we forgot.

I also heard "quality" with respect to why we couldn't have headgear. But then "you have to imagine the ears inside the hair?"

I heard that clipping was a problem with official implementation. But then I looked at the back of the Gunbreaker trainer, and looked at how badly his hair clips in his class armor. And of course I assumed when you say "clipping is bad" you're referring to "all clipping" and not just "the kind of clipping that would result in you having to do some work."

But, it got worse. Because I remember this from 5.55:



So, it's OK to devote resources to fix clipping on not just any hairstyle's clipping, but some pieces of gear clipping on one race with LITERAL BEDHEAD, but not even the one-of-two-possible hairstyles on your NPC? Were you afraid we might "hope too much and hurt ourselves?"

So you were "torn" about having to "maybe make hairstyles more slowly?"

1) Slower than 1 every six months?
2) Until such time I have 0 options that don't involve me paying you $10 to decapitate me?
3) When you say "I need feedback," does a reasonable person just "Release with no QA so that things like the haircuts not sticking to the heads" get out? Or do they get input first?

If they can't say that those hairstyles weren't up to par in terms of:

1) Quality
2) Consistency
3) Lore
4) Human Empathy

...what feedback do you still need? What can I tell Zhexos that will make him understand that was a crappy thing to do to one patient group of people?

When I see something like:



I wonder - should read this as a promise or a threat?

Did Yoshi think those hairstyles looked OK?

The haircuts have no ears, have nothing to do with Hrothgar lore, and DO NOT STICK TO MY HEAD.

Sure, dedicate a resource to the Hrothgar. Trot him out on PLL days, or have him there to ask questions of. Call him Hrothgar Steve, and dress him up in a little tan zookeeper outfit.

Or just make the other legacy hairs available to all the faces? I'll shut up. Promise. And I keep mine.

But if that's not clear enough feedback for Zhexos or anyone else: Your excuses are clipping.

This post is perfect and I shall quote it occasionally to make sure it gets the visibility it deserves.

[Kelev]

This was the quote people told me was mistranslated.
Apparently Yoshi never said race-specific hair, he was saying we would overtime get the existing-hairstyles in game for Viera and Hrothgar, but due to the complicated design of the two it would take a while to implement.

I'm not excusing him, but I'm leaning towards race-specific hair was never on the table for us. We were brought in to be limited races and not get anything to compensate for it. Do you see on the JPN forum or any other that discusses the race-specific hair in this Q&A? So far I only see it in the ENG forum and I've been looking for it on the other forums.

EDIT:
Unfortunately, I don't see how any of this is is helping. Ideally, we should request race-specific hair but on the grounds of we want Yoshi to hire extra-help so we don't end up waiting any longer.

I think explaining things helps greatly. It's not "mistranslated," it's ambiguous. The process for adding the hair is race-specific, not "You're guaranteed race-exclusive hairstyles."

So when I say "Your excuses are clipping," this is what I mean.

Just because you didn't say "I am owed race-exclusive hair" does not mean "You do not have to fix anything."

The vertices of one excuse "I never said that," are overlapping with another "this is hard."

And then they superimpose.

And then nothing gets done.

So not mistranslation.

Ambiguous.

If you take meaning A - we're owed exclusive hairstyles. Technically, these hairstyles are unique to Hrothgar in that they seem to be designed for a completely different skull, which looks like an enraged coconut with a pituitary tumor, and lop off our ears to the point that the background music at the aesthetician will shut down if you so much as hover over them. I kid you not. Now you want racially unique and I feel very special.

If you take meaning B - that the process of screwing us over was implemented in a manner solely for the Hrothgar, technically you are correct. We were given no time to react, and they announced our three year wait was over on April First, date of all manner of tomfoolery. We did not know whether to feel resentful or what, and were given a two-week window to say "WTF?" which is something up with which no other group of players had to put.

So, to Zhexos and Square, pick either meaning you like, then pick your butt off the seat.

Either way, is my feedback clear enough for everyone? Do we all have enough data to get to work now? Or was my previous message whose primary thrust was "What feedback EXACTLY do you need to understand that all you needed to do is look at this thing from the side, scream like Mariah Carey in a bear trap, and then reconsider some life choices?" just not able to get over the potential whoopsie-doodle of the ambiguity?

[SacraAnima]

Greetings, everyone.
As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading.

Hello and thank you for making your presence known here.
I'm sure it's obvious by now that the hairstyles provided in the 6.1 patch are not what players were expecting nor were they what we were told we would be getting. I respect that this is a large game and a lot of hard work and love gets put into it. I am grateful for all of it, however, this particular situation has generated a lot of disappointment and distrust within the community and thus it can be learned from. I'll offer my feedback and ask a few open questions for the dev team to consider.

My feedback:

-The quality of these hairstyles released in 6.1 are not indicative of a thoughtful and effortful execution of a feature that players were first told about 3 years ago. They do not demonstrate care in respecting base artistic aesthetic nor do they reflect care on the part of the development team. The choices of hairstyles alone demonstrate that no thought was given to whether or not they would actually look good on Hrothgars.

-The lack of communication over the past three years regarding Hrothgar hairstyles is staggering and is largely the cause of this whole situation. Asking for feedback now is slightly insulting after three years have gone by with just a handful of comments, maybe a one sentence bullet point on a Live Letter slideshow, and virtually no interaction with the community from the devs on this topic.

Had you been transparent with your decision making as the choices were being made, the community would have been able to tell you that your plan of execution is not at all what anyone actually wants. You could have announced that race specific hairstyles weren't happening anymore, you didn't and are now surprised that people are upset about not getting them. You could have announced that the only way to fit hairstyles onto Hroths is to remove their ears before you edited a single hairstyle, you didn't and are now surprised that Hrothgar players are obviously upset about a major feature of their race is being changed.

I personally feel that this whole situation could have been avoided if you, the dev team, would have communicated with us along the way so that we could have had the opportunity to let you know that removing our ears and giving us hairstyles that do not properly fit our faces (they even float off of our heads as Kelev has demonstrated) isn't what we've been asking for since the launch of Shadowbringers.

-I don't trust your reasonings as to why Hrothgar hairstyles are so difficult. Your team was able to sculpt and create 17 unique hairstyles for Male Viera alone. If you're able to warp gear meshes to fit a Lalafell and a Roe, then you can create unique hairstyles for Hrothgar and warp the meshes to fit each head, it's really only the 4th head that needs attention. Modders were able to restore ears to these hairstyles within 40 minutes of the patch going up. It's obvious you wanted to avoid clipping and your solution if far far worse than ears clipping through hair. There are a lot of inconstancies in what you, the devs, have told us over the years and my trust is pretty much gone regarding this topic.

-------------------

What I would like to see going forward:

-Create race specific hairstyles for Hrothgars, as was mentioned in Live Letter Part LIII

-Restore ears to the 6.1 hairstyles you released, accept that it will clip

-Allow all Hrothgar faces access to all race specific hairstyles, even those released in 5.0

-Be transparent and communicate during the process of adding new hair, maybe even get community artists involved through a design contest, there is no lack of passion in the community

-------------------

Questions for the Devs:

In the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LIII Digest (08/29/2019), someone asked if Viera and Hrothgar were going to get new hairstyles. You replied:
A: We certainly plan on adding more, so please wait for future patches. However, it will still be race-specific, so there won’t be as many selections when compared to other races.

プロデューサーからの手紙 LIVE Part LIII ダイジェスト（2019/08/29）で、「ヴィエラやロスガルは新しいヘアスタイルになるのか」という質問がありました。という回答がありましたね。
A：確かに追加する予定ですので、今後のパッチをお待ちください。ただし、やはり種族固有のものになるので、他の種族と比較すると選択肢はそれほど多くはないでしょう。

When was the decision made to not create new race specific hairstyles and why didn't you announce it to the community?

新しい人種別のヘアスタイルを作らないというのはいつ決定されたのですか？

When was the decision made that removing the ears was the only viable solution and why didn't you announce it to the community ahead of time?

耳を取り外すことが唯一の現実的な解決策であるという判断はいつなされたのでしょうか。また、なぜそれを事前にコミュニティに発表しなかったのでしょうか。

Your team was able to create 17 new hairstyles for Male Viera alone, why is it now a monumental task to create new hairstyles for Hrothgar?

メンズビエラだけでも17種類のヘアスタイルを開発されているのに、なぜロスガルのヘアスタイルを作るのは難しいのでしょうか？

How have the last three years been used with regard to hairstyles for Hrothgar? Also, do you think more transparency in the process would have saved time had you asked for our input earlier?

ロズガルのヘアスタイルについて、この3年間はどのように使われていたのでしょうか。また、プロセスを透明化することで、もっと早く私たちの意見を聞いていれば、時間を短縮できたと思いますか？

Why were the earless hairstyles considered a solution? Are you trying to avoid clipping? The Hrothgar in Bozja are able to wear hairstyles outside of those locked to their faces. Why can't we?

なぜ耳なしヘアスタイルが解決策とされたのか？クリッピングを回避するためでしょうか？ボジャのロスガルは、顔に固定されている以外のヘアスタイルをすることができます。なぜ、私たちはできないのでしょうか？

You mentioned that the price to pay will be that the new race specific hairstyles will take time and will be fewer. Will this be a priority for the devs so that Hrothgar, who have been waiting for three years, don't have to wait another three?

その代償として、新しい種族固有のヘアスタイルは時間がかかり、数も少なくなるとおっしゃっていましたね。3年間待っていたロスガルがさらに3年待たされることがないよう、開発陣にとって優先順位の高いものになるのでしょうか？



(these questions are a repost from many pages ago, forgive me fellow Ear Defenders, I want the mods and hopefully the devs to think about these things)

[Kelev]

This post is perfect and I shall quote it occasionally to make sure it gets the visibility it deserves.

I volunteer you as Hrothgar Steve.

[Rehayem]

Wanted to step in and say those hairstyles not only are horrendous, but shows how little care SE actually put in even "attempting" to make them somewhat normal, and even chopped off the ears. Hroths got the heaviest beating and they think it's perfectly fine specially that Voldemort meme, cracked me up the most.

SE is slowly distancing itself from their own players and just freeballing it, so it seems.

[Raim]

The staff need to realize that most players prefer more options regardless of clipping. Au Ra horns clip through nearly all helmets in the game. Miqo'te ears and tails clip through tons of gear. But those races don't have gear taken away from them, let alone hairstyles. Its OKAY for hair and ears to clip. Stop using perfection as an excuse to put out otherwise good hairstyles.

[Lumikarh]

The moderator has received the feedback they asked for.

The feedback most of us gave isn't about haircuts at all.



Well, what's weird is what was I heard you say was:



Now, I didn't hear of anyone working on either Viera or Hrothgar before the Zepla video came out so I assumed you hoped we forgot.

I also heard "quality" with respect to why we couldn't have headgear. But then "you have to imagine the ears inside the hair?"

I heard that clipping was a problem with official implementation. But then I looked at the back of the Gunbreaker trainer, and looked at how badly his hair clips in his class armor. And of course I assumed when you say "clipping is bad" you're referring to "all clipping" and not just "the kind of clipping that would result in you having to do some work."

But, it got worse. Because I remember this from 5.55:



So, it's OK to devote resources to fix clipping on not just any hairstyle's clipping, but some pieces of gear clipping on one race with LITERAL BEDHEAD, but not even the one-of-two-possible hairstyles on your NPC? Were you afraid we might "hope too much and hurt ourselves?"

So you were "torn" about having to "maybe make hairstyles more slowly?"

1) Slower than 1 every six months?
2) Until such time I have 0 options that don't involve me paying you $10 to decapitate me?
3) When you say "I need feedback," does a reasonable person just "Release with no QA so that things like the haircuts not sticking to the heads" get out? Or do they get input first?

If they can't say that those hairstyles weren't up to par in terms of:

1) Quality
2) Consistency
3) Lore
4) Human Empathy

...what feedback do you still need? What can I tell Zhexos that will make him understand that was a crappy thing to do to one patient group of people?

When I see something like:



I wonder - should read this as a promise or a threat?

Did Yoshi think those hairstyles looked OK?

The haircuts have no ears, have nothing to do with Hrothgar lore, and DO NOT STICK TO MY HEAD.

Sure, dedicate a resource to the Hrothgar. Trot him out on PLL days, or have him there to ask questions of. Call him Hrothgar Steve, and dress him up in a little tan zookeeper outfit.

Or just make the other legacy hairs available to all the faces? I'll shut up. Promise. And I keep mine.

But if that's not clear enough feedback for Zhexos or anyone else: Your excuses are clipping.

I agree with everything here and i really hope do eventually reaches the developers eyes

[Rehayem]

I agree with everything here and i really hope do eventually reaches the developers eyes

People have hoped for proper Hrothgar hairstyles for 3 years and this is what we got. "Hope" is not enough to push the developers to do what they've promised. As I have always said, stay skeptical.

[Lumikarh]

People have hoped for proper Hrothgar hairstyles for 3 years and this is what we got. "Hope" is not enough to push the developers to do what they've promised. As I have always said, stay skeptical.

I originally was convinced they would eventually do nice things for hrothgar, "Hope" is as far i can go after this.

That said, the more loud noticeable and proper feedback everyone gives the better...

[Rawr18]

Honestly...at this point they should just unlock all customization options except race and gender at the hair guy.

That, or lower fantasia prices.