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  1. #1
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Larirawiel View Post
    And there is another causal loop error:

    The name "Hydaelyn" should not exist because nobody invented it. You tell Venat, that she will become Hydaelyn and Venat tells you, that she is Hydaelyn. But there is no inventor of the name.
    Exactly. People try to say it works because it's a "stable" time loop, but it's a paradox. The worst part is it makes the WoL an accomplice to the sundering and all the consequences of it. I'm continually baffled that anyone thought this was a good idea. I can only imagine the outrage if the WoL had been in any way conducive to one of the Ascians' rejoinings, yet here we are essentially responsible for instigating something so much more egregious. I went into Elpis screaming at the screen to tell them the truth so they could save themselves only for my heart to drop to the pit of my stomach when I realized we'd just handed Venat a loaded gun.
    (11)

  2. #2
    Player
    Misplaced_Marbles's Avatar
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    Jun 2021
    Posts
    469
    Character
    Violent Saviour
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    yet here we are essentially responsible for instigating something so much more egregious.
    Egregious isn't bad, but I'd say monstrous, abominable or diabolical would be more apt.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,078
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokke View Post
    EW's unintentional (?) big reveal was that life has been on rails like a ride at Disneyland ...and this simultaneously sucks the accomplishment of my wol's past deeds and the fun out of any ongoing multipatch content that deals with the past because both are just falling dominoes.
    I disagree that it has done anything to put our life on rails. We still continue along and make our own decisions and have full influence on anything we do – even when travelling to the past, if we don't know the details of how that past event unfolded. It's our decisions that create those events in the moment, and the time loop doesn't dictate our actions any more than the fact that there are people in the future who see our current events as fixed history.

    (On the other hand we have put Venat's life on rails by telling her what she will do in the future, and I will forever regard it a mistake that they didn't wipe those memories from her.)

    While it's true that whatever we do in Pandaemonium will not fix the Final Days, it might make some people's lives better in the short term, and we will have learned something useful about the past.


    Quote Originally Posted by Larirawiel View Post
    And there is another causal loop error: The name "Hydaelyn" should not exist because nobody invented it. You tell Venat, that she will become Hydaelyn and Venat tells you, that she is Hydaelyn. But there is no inventor of the name.
    Yes, it's not just the name but the idea of the Sundering itself, and everything else that unfolded. Even if she would have chosen the things regardless, now she has no chance to decide on them for herself, she can only justify them.

    She should have been memory-wiped with the others, perhaps willingly after realising this is information she does not want her actions to be dictated by. Everything else would make sense if they changed that detail.

    (Well, that and the complete rewrite of the details of the Sundering that doesn't seem to resemble anything we were told up to this point, but that's another well-trodden argument.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    Exactly. People try to say it works because it's a "stable" time loop, but it's a paradox. The worst part is it makes the WoL an accomplice to the sundering and all the consequences of it.
    It is a stable time loop, and the paradox is a specific type of paradox that can exist within a stable time loop (aside of the question of how it ever got started) because it's just information and not a physical object that could degrade through multiple loops.

    And I disagree that it makes us an accomplice. We didn't agree to it. It's just as inevitable as it was before, and we blundered into telling Venat about it to be acted upon, but that isn't the same as being an accomplice to her actions.

    Ultimately it is a tragedy that has already happened, and even if we somehow "changed" events to prevent it, it would still need to happen in another branch of time to support our existence. Just like the Eighth Calamity timeline still exists despite being overwritten.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    I went into Elpis screaming at the screen to tell them the truth so they could save themselves only for my heart to drop to the pit of my stomach when I realized we'd just handed Venat a loaded gun.
    You are warned by Elidibus, right from the beginning, that even if you can interact with people you cannot undo the tragedy that has already unfolded, because the present world exists as a consequence of it.

    If you went into the past wanting to tell them the truth despite that warning, then you've made the same choice that your character makes about how much information to give out. Your decision to tell them does not – cannot – make the Sundering any more or less inevitable than it already was. You exist because of it, and you're here to save a world that exists because of it.

    (And even if you-the-player don't like the characters of the modern day, you have to accept that your character clearly does like them and cares about them.)

    At best your actions can create or inspire a second branch of time. Perhaps you did, or Venat did at some point, and the story has not followed that other branch.
    (4)
    Last edited by Iscah; 03-27-2022 at 09:18 AM.