Looking back at this Yoshi P statement(story spoilers)

[AnotherPerson]

Wait, but didn't Venat die though? And she died in the truest sense of the word, where her soul is completely extinguished and have no second life. There's no denying that she's been supporting the scions, you, and other Warriors of Light since ARR. She's pretty much the Haurchefant of Endwalker, except she's been there for multiple expansions assisting the scions without being given a personal 1-to-1. The only difference is that Haurchefant is still in the Aetherial Sea or can reincarnate whereas Venat is truly gone for good. She made the ultimate sacrifice and has no way of returning. Even though the ancients died and no longer are stuck in limbo, they should be able to reincarnate. Even Papalymo and Moenbryda are chilling in the aetherial sea. In terms of how sacrifices and deaths go, Endwalker had the biggest sacrifice (though whether people can feel the impact is a different story).

Her death has a lot more considerable consequences going forward - as there are no longer new Warriors of Light to support the realm and the reflections while there are still ascians left in the other shards.

Personally, I don't think the scions need to die since Endwalker is only a part of the storyline as long as the writing is good enough. Otherwise Alphinaud would've had his spotlight in Heavensward and been dead after saving Estinen. Thancred being alive actually made me feel more relieved when he came back alive.

[Illmaeran]

Yes, Venat is gone for good with no possibility of return, per Yoshi in the last translated Live Letter.

There are a few Scions I wouldn't cry over if they died, just to make sure they never return to the story, but those are personal preferences. I'll be equally happy if they go off on some personal mission that keeps them out of contact permanently/almost permanently.

[Iscah]

In addition to Venat, technically Hades and Hyth count as major character deaths in Endwalker, even if not really handled as such.

[KizuyaKatogami]

snip

I suppose the argument there is whether she’s a true protagonist or not, personally with how backseated she was i don’t consider it much of an “impactful main character death.” Also she wasn’t the only one whose soul got extinguished. Elidibus had the same happen to him when he made the ultimate sacrifice to send us back to Elpis.

The problem is when we start getting such a bloated cast and some characters begin to lose a purpose. Yshtola did nothing of significant value this expansion at all, i think she read some books and that was it. She doesn’t really have an arching story until now where i guess she’s trying to travel, but with this logic they can just keep inventing new ways and random sub plots to keep characters around. It comes off as incredibly tone deaf to write an expansion trying to preach to its players about suffering and sacrifice but then to not have the heroes have to deal with something like that, and that’s why this quote is so interesting to me. Yoshi P in this quote is basically confirming that in a story like 14’s, it would be wrong to expect everything to go okay on the hero side. Ever since Stormblood the story has been incredibly one sided. The protagonists win and survive with no consequences whatsoever whereas powerful antagonists are reduced to nothing through the power of plot armor or plot convenience. It severely reduces the impact for people. How am i supposed to take a threat or character seriously if i know nothing bad will ever happen? Again, this isn’t supposed to be some kid movie(although funnily enough, more characters die in disney movies than in 14 lul) it’s an mmorpg that advertises itself as dark,grim, etc etc. But then doesn’t ever follow through with that. The fact they only had the final days in 2 zones is a testament to that.

Might i also add, it’s not even just death that’s the problem, it’s any consequences whatsoever. There’s none for any of their actions. Again i point back yo Heavensward, where they make the comment of Yshtola’s life draining away and that’s just completely forgotten about. At the very least Thancred is still feeling the consequences of flow as he can’t use aether still. But stormblood onwards it’s nothin but a one sided fluff fest where they advertise it as high stakes, horrible apocalyptic scenarios, but everyone comes out unscathed. How does it make sense that we lost more people close to us against the garleans/primals than unsundered ascians, or the final days.

In addition to Venat, technically Hades and Hyth count as major character deaths in Endwalker, even if not really handled as such.

This specific quote is in reference to the ally side tbf.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Wait, but didn't Venat die though? And she died in the truest sense of the word, where her soul is completely extinguished and have no second life. There's no denying that she's been supporting the scions, you, and other Warriors of Light since ARR. She's pretty much the Haurchefant of Endwalker, except she's been there for multiple expansions assisting the scions without being given a personal 1-to-1. The only difference is that Haurchefant is still in the Aetherial Sea or can reincarnate whereas Venat is truly gone for good. She made the ultimate sacrifice and has no way of returning. Even though the ancients died and no longer are stuck in limbo, they should be able to reincarnate. Even Papalymo and Moenbryda are chilling in the aetherial sea. In terms of how sacrifices and deaths go, Endwalker had the biggest sacrifice (though whether people can feel the impact is a different story).

Her death has a lot more considerable consequences going forward - as there are no longer new Warriors of Light to support the realm and the reflections while there are still ascians left in the other shards.

Personally, I don't think the scions need to die since Endwalker is only a part of the storyline as long as the writing is good enough. Otherwise Alphinaud would've had his spotlight in Heavensward and been dead after saving Estinen. Thancred being alive actually made me feel more relieved when he came back alive.

We didn't even know who Venat was until about level 85. I don't really consider deaths of expansion-specific characters to be on the same level as killing off mainstays. They may as well have been written specifically to die, instead of having death be a more emergent, long-term conclusion.

[Anvaire]

I think it's funny those comments came after 5.3's ridiculously obvious fanservice driven epilogue doing a 180 on a long foreshadowed sacrifice.

Except that it didn't do a 180. The Crystal Exarch Died in the first crystal tower. We took his soul and his memories and them melded into the sources crystal tower Graha. But this isnt a resurection, it just gives the experiences to the sources gra'ha. This is why out side of a few moments, the current Graha is still very awkward and youthful over the more reflective Crystal Exarch. Essentially, while he has the memories and conversely a sense of the experience. He doesnt have the maturity of the first's Crystal Exarch, or the true experience. It has made an impact on him, but equally he is still a separate person from the crystal exarch. Their souls did merge at the end of 5.3 though, but that doesnt mean the person the crystal Exarch was overwrote younger graha.

[MikkoAkure]

How does it make sense that we lost more people close to us against the garleans/primals than unsundered ascians, or the final days.

The Scions have been leveling up. G’raha had enough VIT from 100 years of grinding to survive a bullet wound being untreated for a whole zone and a swim to the surface.


But anyway… You don’t need a character death in order to escalate things or show how bad things are. Arenvald was injured badly and taken out of action without being removed from the story with death. Killing a character comes with a lot of baggage and it can land really badly with the audience if not handled well.

Other FF game spoilers below.

You don’t necessarily need consequences either. FFXII deals with their own versions of primals and a war against the Empire and all the non-guest party members end up alive with no consequences and their own fake-out death with the 2 sky pirates. FFVI has an end of the world scenario even worse than the Final Days we ended up getting and none of the party members die (as long as you recruit them all). FFIV has their own twins who sacrifice themselves for the party and end up being resurrected by the end so it’s not like this is even a new thing.

[Theodric]

I like Arenvald but he's a non-entity for most of the game's story. If someone didn't talk to the NPC's in Vesper Bay in between errands back in ARR then they'd probably have no clue as to who Arenvald even is. Especially since ARR was almost a decade ago by this point.

The adventure into Skalla with Arenvald was pretty neat back in Stormblood in 4.1 but after that he basically fell back into obscurity until it was time for the the finale of Shadowbringers and he was brought back to the forefront, made to seem important and then thrown into a wheelchair so he could once again be shuffled off into the background where he would have been residing ordinarily.

Arenvald's situation isn't really on the same level as it would be if G'raha ended up having his lower body paralysed rendering him unable to fight.

[Tehmon]

The only moment in Endwalker where I thought '' oh, this character dying right now could potentially improve the overall story or otherwise be satisfying '' was at the end of Endwalker where WoL is close to death. They could've just went through with it. The only one of the scions that should be doing heroic sacrifices for the greater good is us anyway.

[MikkoAkure]

Arenvald's situation isn't really on the same level as it would be if G'raha ended up having his lower body paralysed rendering him unable to fight.

Arenvald may not be a “main party member”, but again, how often is a main party member killed or severely injured to the point they can’t go on fighting anymore in the middle of an Final Fantasy game? I can only think of two cases in the whole series where that happened outside of the ending and both of those were over twenty years ago.

Meanwhile there are many cases of that happening to a guest party member and I feel like Arenvald would qualify. Guest party members are often used in FF games to flit in and out of the story and have bad stuff happen to them to increase the stakes without depriving the player of a main character.

I’m still not sure why there’s a fervent desire to have main characters killed anyway. I feel like the current main characters are so established that many players will feel put off if they killed one of them and enjoyment will be lost.