World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Ronduwil]

My work is very taxing and exhausting. I also play FF to have fun and relax. You know what I don't find enjoyable or relaxing? 15 minute runs taking 25 to 30 minutes. Carrying people who want to do the bare minimum because their fun is more important above all else.

Sorry you view more time in the game as more work. Our perspectives are clearly very different. If I'm playing 15 minutes or thirty minutes, I'm just happy I'm playing. That's what the game is all about: playing. If I'm in a fight and everyone else dies because I'm the only one who knows the mechanics, I'm happy to solo the boss and receive the commendations later. I'm even happy to provide tips to the other random players in the group so they can be more helpful next time around. I don't sulk and complain that I carried everyone on my back because they didn't "work" as hard as I did. I don't demand extra bonuses for my excessive effort. I don't insist that SE nerf everyone else's rewards to punish players with worse reflexes or that they increase the difficulty even further to get everyone to step up their game for the sake of an arbitrary baseline that I've established.

You don't have to be in a static, download a parser, do research on optimization and perfect your rotation to be midcore.

Well said! I'm glad we agree.

I don't partake in any of that. But having low expectations that are still higher than "healers dont need to dps and dps only need to press their 1-2-3" does not make someone hardcore or an elitist.

It doesn't make you hardcore, but it does make you elitist. If you don't like running MSQ roulette as White Mage, then do Astrologian. Or equip your best gear so that you can get into a higher level raid and manage lillies. You do you. Please quit insisting that SE force everyone else to do the same.

[Ronduwil]

If using your kit, not even optimally but just using it in general, is too much effort for you to put in, find some friends who are willing to carry you and don't subject the randoms you get paired with to your selfishness.

And now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that players shouldn't use their entire kit. I simply said that there's no need for SE to expand it beyond what it already is. I also said that there's nothing wrong with consolidating existing skills to make the kit easier to manage. Was I sad to consolidate three gunbreaker buttons onto a single one? I was not. According to the OP, however, it's dumbing down the game for everyone and "catering to casuals."

Also, if a healer not being expected to dps is midcore, by your own assessment, what would make them a casual?

Again, midcore is casual. There's hardcore, midcore, and low skill. Midcore and low skill are typically casual. This video describes my feelings on what is and isn't casual pretty well:

https://youtu.be/ZGCFxHUsSGU

[hynaku]

Except I have been playing FF14 since Heavensward and I probably have played way more of FF14 than you ever will.

I'm pretty sure you haven't been playing as long as me. Unless you did the beta for 1.0 and been playing since it.

[LittleImp]

Again, midcore is casual. There's hardcore, midcore, and low skill. Midcore and low skill are typically casual. This video describes my feelings on what is and isn't casual pretty well:

https://youtu.be/ZGCFxHUsSGU

The community for this game tends to have a weird way they apply these terms tbh. It usually refers to the types of content you primarily interact with, rather than the amount of time you spend with it. I don't know why it's that way and I've always found it kind of odd myself, but its probably where some of the confusion in this thread is stemming from.

'Casual' usually refers to people who primarily just do roulette content, MSQ, crafting, roleplay etc. Doesn't matter if you have 2000 hours crafting or can recite every line of dialogue in the story, if it's all you really do you're still considered 'casual'

'Hardcore' is typically reserved for people who clear savage tiers on a scale of days or weeks, and clear current ultimates. You can spend 6 hours a week playing the game and still be considered hardcore by the community.

[Lily_Skye]

Except I have been playing FF14 since Heavensward and I probably have played way more of FF14 than you ever will.

lmao

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

lmao

He's got more alt accounts than most people have fingers and toes. He's not once posted on his main.

[Ronduwil]

'Casual' usually refers to people who primarily just do roulette content, MSQ, crafting, roleplay etc. Doesn't matter if you have 2000 hours crafting or can recite every line of dialogue in the story, if it's all you really do you're still considered 'casual'

Regardless, if SE is catering to those people who just do roulette content, MSQ, and crafting, then I think they'll be just fine. The fact that they successfully cater to those guys while also throwing in Savage and Ultimate content with prestige items is great. My point is that WoW's decline is due to Blizzard completely throwing those players by the wayside and exclusively focusing on the high end content. To mix terminology between the two games, they've made all dungeons Savage-level, added a very tight timer to them, and downscaled the gear rewards (present and future) for any group that fails to clear the timer. I didn't mean to make this a conversation about casual versus hardcore. I'm just contesting the OP's assertion that Blizzard caters to casuals as well as the suggestion that continuing to cater to casuals will send the game into decline.

[Skiros]

He's got more alt accounts than most people have fingers and toes. He's not once posted on his main.

I actually have, a long time ago.

[Padudu]

Except I have been playing FF14 since Heavensward and I probably have played way more of FF14 than you ever will.

I like how this one comment has people going "B-b-but I've played even LONGER!"

ok for real here's my question: I didn't come from WoW (I'm a RuneScape/PSO2 player LMAO). Is WoW dead or not? I feel like even among current WoW players it's just a hard call to make. Is it in the "incoming maintenance mode" stage or what?

[Vahlnir]

I like how this one comment has people going "B-b-but I've played even LONGER!"

ok for real here's my question: I didn't come from WoW (I'm a RuneScape/PSO2 player LMAO). Is WoW dead or not? I feel like even among current WoW players it's just a hard call to make. Is it in the "incoming maintenance mode" stage or what?

Dead? No. Dying? Yeah, without a doubt, but it could get a course correct if they make some meaningful changes with the next expansion. Shadowlands did more damage to the game than any expansion before it, and that says a lot given how Cataclysm and Warlords of Draenor turned out. Battle for Azeroth wasn't the greatest either but it still kept me playing. The ongoing drama and lawsuits played their part as well, but that had an affect on all of their products.