What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Absimiliard]

This is my #2 gripe after Venat's portrayal. I was screaming at the screen for my WoL to tell Emet the truth, to save them! We finally do only to have Venat betray us and the WoL does jack about it. Everything about the end of Elpis made me sick to my stomach.

As nice as it would've been, it looks like saving them would only have created another stray timeline where they survived. In fact, the timeline the game takes place in is set in an alternate timeline. The G'raha Tia that became the Crystal Exarch came from the original, which seems to still be there.

[Tehmon]

Elpis was a mess through and through, though I still enjoyed it.

Hermes very clearly second-guessing the order of the ancient society and going through something quite rare for ancients? Ok whatever bruh, just join the convocation Hermes :-)
Hermes, you need to make an official report on those creations of yours! Got it, though I've already sent tens, if not hundreds of these prototype creations to solve the meaning of life :-)
Use their last seconds to pressure Venat and WoL to remind them of what happened after Kairos wipes their memory? Nah, just wave at them and go on a brief rant about I DON'T BELIEVE YOU BUT IF I'M WRONG YOU BETTER NOT FAIL :-)

If I was supposed to get the impression that this civilization was incredibly intelligent, I did not get that.

[s0uleman]

It was a pretty good expansion although i have enjoyed previous expansions more!
I didn't shed any tears after presuming it was going to be sob fest judging from the many reviewers who had cried buckets and needed time to 'process'....i must have a cold heart or something as i never got the feels and didn't need a day or two to 'process' anything.

What i disliked was the moon bunnies. I said to my husband WTF are these 'looney tunes' characters? He thinks they are cute, i think they are annoying. Ruined the emersion when the Loporitts made their entrance.

But the thing i dislike the absolute most is the Disneyesque vocal in Ultima Thule...oh Dear God that song is the worst......i guess it's a great zone if you like it but i have to mute it when i go there, first zone i have ever had to mute!!

The moon zone is a little bland especially after the hype, not much to explore but I loved Garlemald....cant go wrong with snow zones imo

Story was ok, they threw common sense out of the window a lot i noticed.....do you remember the bit where Hermes is all distraught because the Apex predator 'shark' looking monsters were running rampart and killing other creations....humn, isn't that what apex predators do so why the surprise you now have to 'unmake' 'kill' them

Obviously their creation magicks are a bit crap.

7/10 glad it's done and can get onto something new

[Raoabolic]

Elpis was a mess through and through, though I still enjoyed it.

Hermes very clearly second-guessing the order of the ancient society and going through something quite rare for ancients? Ok whatever bruh, just join the convocation Hermes :-)
Hermes, you need to make an official report on those creations of yours! Got it, though I've already sent tens, if not hundreds of these prototype creations to solve the meaning of life :-)
Use their last seconds to pressure Venat and WoL to remind them of what happened after Kairos wipes their memory? Nah, just wave at them and go on a brief rant about I DON'T BELIEVE YOU BUT IF I'M WRONG YOU BETTER NOT FAIL :-)

If I was supposed to get the impression that this civilization was incredibly intelligent, I did not get that.

If anything the story made Hermes feel like the kid in the short bus in that civilization. I was actually confused why the conclave wanted him in their inner circle considering the guy's lack of foresight. When the WoL and Emet confronted him, I was shocked Emet didn't smack Hermes in the back of the head every time he pointed out why what he did was stupid.

"So you created a being that can be manipulated through emotions?"
*smack*
"And you asked it to find the answers to questions that can change from being to being?"
*smack*
"And you made dozens of them and shot them into space?"
*smack*
"AND it can project it's emotions to others?"
*smack*
"AND you not only gave it sentience you also gave it sapience so it can defy orders?"
*SMACK*

[Skyborne]

...

Yep, there were some things about that in 8 that rubbed me the wrong way, along with 'we forgot because GFs living in our heads', though I liked most of the characters. Seems 14 took after that.

...

Hermes must've turned down the oxygen levels in that whole place is the only way I can rationalize it in my head. It was odd that Venat told us 'time is up' and shoved us through the door (then we proceed to casually stroll right back in for Pandaemonium). Probably to prevent us from, say, bumrushing Hythlodaeus (who would 100% indulge us) and telling him to come with us to that building where we had tea and the WoL spilled all the beans and used the Echo to retrace everything even if we didn't have the smoking gun in Ktsis. We could've asked the researchers who were aware of us and Meteion, or the ones outside Ktsis who may have seen Hermes transformed. Nah...

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

There is one thing that I can think of suddenly that bothers me about Endwalker, though I'll explain my rationale so the answer isn't just "Zenos".

So, it all starts with Shadowbringers (5.0), when Zenos kills his dad and basically causes Garlemald to implode. This removes Black Rose from the table and also gives a way for Eorzea to collaborate with Garlemald in the future rather than beating them into submission and forcing friendship after the fact. It bothered me a little bit that Varis was removed from the table prior to any kind of character development, but still, so far so good.

Then Zenos starts trying to destroy the world. And starts brainwashing people worldwide with these torture devices. And has Garlemald completely destroyed. And mutilates his father's corpse. And steals our body and uses it to try and attack our friends. And has the brainwashed masses try to suicide bomb everywhere when Anima is dispersed. A lot of really horrible things, basically! So now I'm ready. I'm expecting to finally defeat Zenos once and for all and get justice for all of the madness he's left in his wake.

But at the story's end, the focus isn't really on this. Instead, the focus is on him showing up to save the world so that we will pay attention and give him what he wants. Which we do. And there's... no real punishment in that?

Zenos' fellow cohort Hermes is presented as a sympathetic antagonist, but even he gets sent to the Hell Dimension with Yotsuyu's asshole brother. And this is after being humiliated, humbled, and made to realize that he was wrong about his choices in the past. Meanwhile, Zenos gets the exciting final fight he wants, exits the story more or less as a hero (admittedly more-so in the eyes of the audience than the in-universe characters), and is implied to possibly save the Warrior of Light's life at the end with the remote. And before that, he gets a similar spiel as he did in Stormblood where he projects himself onto our Warrior of Light and basically tries to define us as what he wants us to be. And his responses are either happiness that you say what he wants to hear, excitement you want to kill him, or mild annoyance that you're pretending to be something other than what (he says) you really are.

So ultimately, Zenos helps save the world and also gets the final say in what your character is. Naturally, we can't turn down the prospect of a duel, lest we set him back to his pre-Alisaie mentality or just let him walk away Scott-free for all he's done. But we don't even get the option to tell him off or punish him in some way beyond making him slightly disappointed that he lost again and somewhat reflective on the fact that he never really cared about people because Varis was a bad father. He more or less gets what he wants again and gets to pass away (maybe) on his terms.

[Theodric]

I suppose, with Zenos, they wanted to force an awkward Golbez reference to tie in with the other FF4 references.

I would have preferred to have seen the writers do as much with Varis, instead, given that his mannerisms and design is far closer to Golbez whilst being a much more sympathetic character in general given the origins of his people and the unfortunate situations they were all plunged into.

[KageTokage]

I don't think ignoring the guy who committed genocide simply out of a petty desire to avoid giving him what he wants would've been very proper, especially when there's no indication he wouldn't have tried to "motivate" us again in the future.

If you choose to believe that he only ended up with a realization of how utterly empty and pointless his life had been in the end, I'd honestly consider that the best kind of poetic justice he could've received.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I suppose, with Zenos, they wanted to force an awkward Golbez reference to tie in with the other FF4 references.

I would have preferred to have seen the writers do as much with Varis, instead, given that his mannerisms and design is far closer to Golbez whilst being a much more sympathetic character in general given the origins of his people and the unfortunate situations they were all plunged into.

Yeah, I was disappointed that Varis just kinda died off. I thought he was a bit ridiculous in a few points, but I definitely was curious if we'd ever manage to turn around his viewpoint, especially after the reveal he was an unwilling participant in the Ascians' schemes.

Instead, he just dies and never really stops being a dick. I guess he's like Quintus in that regard, but it's still a bit disappointing.

I don't think ignoring the guy who committed genocide simply out of a petty desire to avoid giving him what he wants would've been very proper, especially when there's no indication he wouldn't have tried to "motivate" us again in the future.

If you choose to believe that he only ended up with a realization of how utterly empty and pointless his life had been in the end, I'd honestly consider that the best kind of poetic justice he could've received.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to say we should have actually taken the option to walk away. He's too dangerous. But it does bother me that the only way to deal with him is to give him what he wants. My hope for Endwalker was that Zodiark would be too spicy for him and absorb him, but that didn't play out.

[Skyborne]

I suppose, with Zenos, they wanted to force an awkward Golbez reference to tie in with the other FF4 references.

I would have preferred to have seen the writers do as much with Varis, instead, given that his mannerisms and design is far closer to Golbez whilst being a much more sympathetic character in general given the origins of his people and the unfortunate situations they were all plunged into.

Really felt like they were building up Varis into someone we would work with (begrudgingly or no) especially with Regula's last words in mind... it never happened. He was actually pretty sympathetic in Stormblood -- childhood best friend and one of the few people he trusted dead, his wife/Zenos' mother dead, and stuck between two Ascians trying to hold out against them while they taunted him (and reminded him of how little control he had). He truly seemed to care about his people and the Empire's ideals and knew about Amaurot, though how much he did or how he even knew was up in the air. But instead at the very end he just does a funny sinister meme face and releases the gas that he was so against using to the point where Elidibus was getting fed up and visibly annoyed. Really done dirty.

Though if you think about it, he kind of got what he wanted, for mankind to decide their own fate, thanks to us. He's probably sharing a beer in the Lifestream with Ilberd right now. Speaking of which, why'd we have to fight that guy (aside from fanservice memberberries)? Should've just told him Ala Mhigo was free now.