Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Atelier-Bagur]

Just for the record even though I switched sides with the argument and I'm all for either a complete healer design rework or just add or change a couple of skills to focus more on a dps rotation.

Where the hell are people getting from that you can go through the entire dungeon and trial content without using most of your healer toolkits constantly? Maybe its because Im just very casual and Im not the best healer around but I still struggle getting dps in whenever tanks go wall to wall in mobs pulls where I mostly focus more on healing than dpsing the mobs, or at least I try to get some dps in but I get interrupted whenever I see that tank HP bar get dangerously low, so I wind up pressing more buttons, instead of 1,1,1,1,1. Same thing goes with tanking, I weave in my mitigations and cooldowns when possible during big mob pulls and bosses. The gameplay is never boring to me because of that. During boss encounters at least there's a bit more leeway for less heals, although I still wind up going through my toolkit when allowed anyway and the most I wind up spamming my dot and single damage spell is around 15-20 seconds before I use other my other skills to make sure the party is up and running smoothly.

Again Im not gonna argue against adding more dps buttons but Im just generally confused how everyone here seems to be complete Gigachads in their class that they spend more time dpsing than pressing their heal buttons in most general content. Maybe its just me.

[QooEr]

Where the hell are people getting from that you can go through the entire dungeon and trial content without using most of your healer toolkits constantly?

i could literaly go and do an expert roulette, or really any instance of your choice, on any healer and record it with obs. alternatively i have a multitude of... ahem battle chat logs of mentor roulette.

but Im just generally confused how everyone here seems to be complete Gigachads in their class that they spend more time dpsing than pressing their heal buttons in most general content. Maybe its just me.

people dont need to be at full hp, they only need to survive. therefore i can get by without healing much of anything because i know for a fact theyre not going to die. if you remember how much damage people take from mechanics its easy to do.

for example i think ive done the first boss of sohm al without healing anyone at all because the boss just dies before anyone is in actual danger of dying. yes the fight ends with everyone at 30% ish hp, but that doesnt mean they needed healing. expert dungeons are especially bad in this regard as opposed to leveling because you actually need to heal the tank sometimes in those

[Atelier-Bagur]

i could literaly go and do an expert roulette, or really any instance of your choice, on any healer and record it with obs. alternatively i have a multitude of... ahem battle chat logs of mentor roulette.


people dont need to be at full hp, they only need to survive. therefore i can get by without healing much of anything because i know for a fact theyre not going to die. if you remember how much damage people take from mechanics its easy to do.

for example i think ive done the first boss of sohm al without healing anyone at all because the boss just dies before anyone is in actual danger of dying. yes the fight ends with everyone at 30% ish hp, but that doesnt mean they needed healing. expert dungeons are especially bad in this regard because you actually need to heal the tank sometimes in those

See I totally get that, its not like I'm trying to over heal. But during most of my encounters, especially big mob pulls, I spend more time healing the tank (or party if they get too caught on AoEs) and reapplying shields than getting stuck dpsing. I understand the mentality that you do better as a healer by killing mobs faster but its hard for me to do that when every 5 seconds or so I see their HP fall below 50% and I panic. But yeah like I said, during some boss encounters you have more wiggle room to dps (which is where I agree that one or 2 more buttons for additional dps would benefit to break up the monotony) but I still wind up healing more than dpsing I find.

[ASkellington]

See I totally get that, its not like I'm trying to over heal. But during most of my encounters, especially big mob pulls, I spend more time healing the tank (or party if they get too caught on AoEs) and reapplying shields than getting stuck dpsing. I understand the mentality that you do better as a healer by killing mobs faster but its hard for me to do that when every 5 seconds or so I see their HP fall below 50% and I panic. But yeah like I said, during some boss encounters you have more wiggle room to dps (which is where I agree that one or 2 more buttons for additional dps would benefit to break up the monotony) but I still wind up healing more than dpsing I find.

It varies on groups. I have just as many runs where I only pop ES/Exaltation with the occasional CI (on a non-WAR tank) as I do runs where I'm scrambling to spam Benefic 2 with Lightspeed up.

I have even had groups where I dip into Neutral Sect (a button I almost never press in Shb+ content cause I never needed it), all my oGCDs are down for another 10-15 seconds and I need to A.Helios.

It isn't like these situations never happen, or that they're extremely rare. Uncommon if I had to say anything.

[Deceptus]

See I totally get that, its not like I'm trying to over heal. But during most of my encounters, especially big mob pulls, I spend more time healing the tank (or party if they get too caught on AoEs) and reapplying shields than getting stuck dpsing. I understand the mentality that you do better as a healer by killing mobs faster but its hard for me to do that when every 5 seconds or so I see their HP fall below 50% and I panic. But yeah like I said, during some boss encounters you have more wiggle room to dps (which is where I agree that one or 2 more buttons for additional dps would benefit to break up the monotony) but I still wind up healing more than dpsing I find.

Dungeon pulls are honestly some of the most dangerous thing in the game where you might actually use a bit more of your healing kit because:

1) You're generally in a PUG so you don't know the caliber of tank you're dealing with

2) Because of #1 damage is relatively random with lots of spikes. If tanks aren't properly mitigating, those spikes are more pronounced.

Depending on the tank, you might have to hard cast your Cure 2 equivalent, but never underestimate the power of regens (and shields to a lesser degree). They help stabilize those spikes a LOT.

For example, take WHM. After lvl 85 WHM Medica II has the exact same cast time as Cure 2, the exact same mana cost, but has a higher total potency of healing. I don't know who designed that or who did the numbers pass on it but it doesn't make much sense. Medica 2 and Regen mixed in with Divine Benison (that you eventually get 2 charges of) can make those massive trash pulls pretty easy. Holy makes it even more trivial.

And pretty much every healer has some sort of combo like that.

SCH: Whispering dawn + Sacred Soil is great sustain. Add Fey union to those? Even better. Protraction before any of that for 10% more healing? Spam Art of War for days.

Sage: Physis II + Haima and Panhaimi, proceed to aoe

AST: Earthly Star, Collective Unconscious, Intersection, aoe away

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Where the hell are people getting from that you can go through the entire dungeon and trial content without using most of your healer toolkits constantly?

Knowing the encounter, knowing how your toolkits performs, and getting a general sense of how your party is performing.

First two are completely on us entirely. It's up to us to recognize how much damage an attack or phase will do to your party. Now I'm not saying people should memorize every single attack in the game because that's just unrealistic. But playing from ARR to EW.. surely players could've developed general expectation of how much damage a raidwide will deal in dungeon/trial/raid contents... how much tankbusters usually do... how much the tank will hemorrhage from wall pulling this much mobs... etc. In dungeons, wall pulls are where healers usually gets their most challenge. Boss, trials and alliance/normal raid setting tend to be snoozefest (See QooEr's Sohm Al comments). This is where the 2nd point comes into play: how effective AND efficient is our toolkits usage. Which at this point, said healer also usually start to play around with their 'comfort range'. This comfort range varies between players. Yes, it can be uncomfortable to certain degree when you're trying to learn this and pushing too hard. But this is one of the few remaining things healers can do to 'improve'.

Finally, the third points is completely outside our control. I.e. tanks only popping mitigation when they get low, or frontloading every cooldowns in one short window, leaving no mitigations ready for next pull, etc. Granted if said healer is excel at the first two points, this drawback usually will stay in their safe hands. At its worst they'll just have to dip into their GCD healings when they are left with no oGCDs remaining to prevent imminent deaths. This puts me in one opinion with QooEr: if people are in no danger of dying (no damage until 30s later, damage only hitting tanks, fairy can heal the chip damage, etc), you are safe to throw out Glaroilfisis.

[Caurcas]

Also want to point out engaging isn't difficultly. Something can be casual and engaging rather than casual and boring.

[Deceptus]

Also want to point out engaging isn't difficultly. Something can be casual and engaging rather than casual and boring.

And that is exactly what veteran healers are asking for at a basic level.

[CosmicCoqui]

Remember it was yoshi that said they wanted healers to focus more so on healing and thus changed things around and yet, it's the one thing healers really don't have to do these days. It's mainly just use the 1 dot, and spam that one attack spell and just use OGCDs when needed.

[TaleraRistain]

Again, my own experience does not mirror this. While my own DPS experience as a healer would very likely be considered the ST spam everyone refers to, what I don't reflect is how engaging/disengaging it is. My engagement as a healer has absolutely nothing to do with my offensive capability. It never has. Even back in 3.x days. My engagement as a healer comes from keeping the situation under control, or getting it back under control should things slip. The RL experiences is to compare mentalities. Not situations. Like I said in my last statement, you don't have to play a healer.

But the problem stems from, how often do we need to keep things under control or get them back under control? Fights can be done completely without us now and not just if we die when it's nearly dead. Groups can't leave the tank out. Groups can't leave the dps out. But groups can leave the healer out.

I don't agree with many that what we need is more dps skills but we need *something* to make it so groups can't leave an entire role behind.