Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[aveyond-dreams]

/checks thread

Oh, the usual suspects whining because the game isn't "hard" enough.

Again, we are not asking necessarily for hard - we just want some more attack buttons. Goodness...

[aveyond-dreams]

I don’t really understand how this would scale with current content .
my only thoughts is that all the healers would turn into something like blue mage with white wind and 10000 damage buttons. then I feel like the only way devs would accommodate for healers doing more damage is to give every monster more health in all content .. soo? Is that an acceptable workaround ?

But honestly just think of how many buttons Astro already has. Imagine with a controller(not that I use one but a fair amount of people do) . And you want to add more damage spells. How many more will be enough ?

.....just. give. us. more. damage. spells.

No need to balance anything. Cut the damage from spell 1 and shift some over to spell 2 if you need, I literally do not care. Cut some of the useless buttons like undraw and give us something actually useful. Even 1 or 2 would be enough!

[neosfaxim]

Lets make this thread get Bigger to at least hope that they see it

[MidnightEquinox]

FFXIV just seems to have a very diminished trinity... but when I brought up that I prefer healers to be more focused on healing, I was told that's outdated bad design so... we have DPSing "healers" instead I guess. :P

[Sicno]

FFXIV just seems to have a very diminished trinity... but when I brought up that I prefer healers to be more focused on healing, I was told that's outdated bad design so... we have DPSing "healers" instead I guess. :P

More than "outdated bad design" it has to do with the way encounters in FF14 are super scripted, so you have big predictable spikes in damage where you use your different resources and then go back to dps'ing. There's no constant healing/mitigation required except for certain phases (usually near the end of a fight) where the boss spams a few aoes back to back. There will never be a need to be "more focused in healing" if the way encounters work stays the same.

[Gemina]

Life as healer:

"Cool! Someone usually screws up this part! Get ready for a rescue, GCD heal, or raise!

...
...


/ac Broil <t>

[einschwartz]

As a fan of the "old" scholar I liked that we used to have one healer job that had a more complex rotation.

But SOME people complained that it was "too hard" and so they took it away from us.

Yes. I believe healer's homogenization on ShB makes the "1 button dps" as an issue more apparent.

I'm gonna copy (and slightly add) what I wrote in another thread 2 years ago:

When looking at DPS roles, they have wide choices from 3 casters (RDM, BLM, SMN), 3 ranged (BRD, MCH, DNC) and 5 melee (MNK, SAM, NIN, DRG, RPR). Each, if not most of them plays differently from each other. Some have straightforward playstyle, some have tight rotations, some dabble with resource management, and some involves busy button presses. A DPS main can find the job that suits their preferred difficulty or enjoyment.

The current healers however lacks this diversity. AST will still be a bit different due to cards but it still have issues with unnecessary button bloat.

In my opinion, healing jobs that have different difficulty / distinct playstyle is just as important as having a varied style of DPS jobs. SE intention for healer homogenization is supposedly to make the job accessible to more players (and easier balance adjustment I guess). While I welcome this, but not by stripping the complexity of healers which are already so limited. The dots and fairy management SCH had made them different to WHM. The simplicity of WHM made healing approachable to other players.

Having different healers with different skill ceiling could also be a challenge to oneself in becoming a better player. Not only that, the distinct difference between 3 healer jobs in SB enables healer mains to pick one that suits their enjoyment. Prefer a simple healer? WHM. Wants to micromanage? AST and (old) SCH.

.....just. give. us. more. damage. spells.

No need to balance anything. Cut the damage from spell 1 and shift some over to spell 2 if you need, I literally do not care. Cut some of the useless buttons like undraw and give us something actually useful. Even 1 or 2 would be enough!

Yeah. Instead of giving more ogcd healing why not add ogcd damage buttons? I don't mind if they delete one or two ogcd heal/shield we currently have to achieve this.
We already have a plenty plus tanks (minus drk) can heal too nowadays.

[Rilifane]

So many people think this is about making the entire game Dark Souls-level hard and brush off valid concerns with "Well, if youre SO good that Ultimate bores you, then play something else! Not everyone wants to be super stressed all the time, okay??" when it's completely besides the point.

The point is that healer is currently the only role that has less to do, the more experienced you get and this is true for all types of content, not just Ultimate raiders that do the odd Expert roulette with their uber skilled static (they wouldn't even bring a healer btw).
From the first baby steps to being an experienced tank with lots of practice, a tank will always use their whole combos, their damage oGCDs and their mitigation. They don't suddenly stop pressing step 3 of their combo when they became more experienced nor do they suddenly stop using mitigation because they have it all figured out.
Why?
Because reducing the aoe damage by 10% or incoming damage by 20% or increasing their own damage by 20% always helps. There is no "I'm so good now that I don't even need half my toolkit". Their entire toolkit is always useful and gets used, from Sastasha to TEA.
From the first baby steps to being an experienced nuke machine, a DPS will also always use their whole combos, procs, dots, damage oGCDs, party buffs and support.
A SAM doesn't suddenly stop using their combo finisher because they got better or the run is smooth. A BLM doesn't suddenly stop using their Leylines because their damage is high enough as it is.
More dps is always useful so the better a DPS gets, the more skills they will use to squeeze out that extra bit. A combo starter never becomes obsolete nor will a skill proccing another.

And then we have healers.
The better you get, the less of your toolkit you use. Overhealing isn't helpful. You don't get brownie points for keeping all your healing oGCDs on cooldown when there's not enough damage to warrant doing so or for using your 2 ARR baby heal just because they exist.
The baby healer will probably feel really busy doing something like Regen - Cure - Dia - Glare - Glare - Medica II - Solace - Glare - Benison - Regen - Glare - Glare - Asylum - Medica II - Dia - Glare and feel like they have to use their whole toolkit and like healing is so stressful.
And then they get better and realize that Asylum is fine to heal that noodle aoe from the boss and they can keep glaring instead of going Medica II Rapture Rapture Assize Medica for every scratch.
The natural way is to get better the more you practice something.
So it's natural for healers to leave the baby healer stage sooner or later. Most do it sooner rather than later without ever having stepped foot into endgame content. It's not an elitist raider thing to be bored in content when playing healer nor does it require that Triple Legend premade.

Two roles do more as they get better, one role does less.
That one role gets brushed off with "If you want a challenge, do Ultimate" when that wasn't even the point - the point was to make healers feel engaged past the baby healer stage or first week prog or Ultimate (where we still spend the majority of out time NOT healing).
How would DPS or Tank mains feel if the majority of their toolkit gets locked and they only have a handful of buttons of their original 20+ button toolkit because the game deemed that there's enough dps/ mitigation so they don't need to use all their shiny buttons? And part of it only gets unlocked in an extremely chaotic and bad party, during 1st week blind prog or Ultimate and then gets locked again?

They don't want to give us more to heal. Low skill floor and accessibility and all that and that's mostly fine. Low skill floor is okay.
What's not okay is that there's nothing past that skill floor and when it gets brought up, we're told "Just do Ultimate". They panic reworked entire DPS classes mid-expansion to make them fun, engaging and balanced. Yet healers can't even get a 2nd dot or a proced nuke for... reasons?
Healer toolkits just don't reflect the long-term reality of combat.

[Allegor]

Sadly, the "Sylphies" seem to be the majority, or at least the ones the devs listen/agree with, you can spot a few even in this very thread. There are people that have genuine handicaps, like connection issues, or physical disabilities, or difficulty in learning, all those are valid....but most of yall are just lazy, plain and simple, and this comes from someone who play casually. A single dps button and a dot from lv 4 all the way to 90 is objectively bad design, period.

[elioaiko]

I think it is kind of tonedeaf to sort of wave it off. But I guess he's giving an actual response to the role for once.

Idc if people beg and beg for the dev team to keep reworking healers because it's very clear that they have no idea how healers are played in the combat system they've created. They STILL believe that we GCD heal a lot but give us oGCDs and even require healer dps for week 1 clears, yet all healers have the same dps kit. It's so conflicting. It's like they don't want to say green dps is a thing when it is.

No matter how you cut it, healer dps will always be a good. When you are done with progging and have something on farm, you don't need to GCD heal as much. And look at their attempt to make us heal more. We get garbage mechanics like Death's Toll with healing debuffs that you need to heal through in 3 GCDS or mechanic vomit with 1-2 sec intervals with forced healing.

Forcing healers to constantly watch HP bars is rather boring which brings us to the point of the desire for GCD healing. I get it, healers should heal but GCD healing constantly is equally as boring as Glare spamming. People keep asking the wrong question, "how do you plan on making healers heal more," knowing full well besides raising raidwides to the point of nearly wiping instantly or making autos rip half the tank's HP constantly, it's the predictive nature of the combat design that stops them from making healers "heal".

Instead of asking about more healing, we should be pushing for healers to have more support in their kits.

The way they have job syngery is simple and limiting, no job can have a support ability that overshadows each other. Which is why all phys. ranged has reskinned Shield Samba. Or Melee/Caster having Feint/Addle. They don't want certain jobs to have advantages over the other and thus not have unique things in their kits besides flavor. There are some exceptions and it's constantly fighting between who has stronger rDPS and personal DPS to justify their place in the meta.

This obsession with wanting healers to be healbots is what's making the role unappealing to outsiders. All we do is just heal and dps, having real support skills would make healers miles better to play.