What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[KizuyaKatogami]

snip

You’re so factually incorrect i don’t even know where to begin. The first two sacrifices were volunteers. They did sacrifice themselves for it did you not pay attention in ShB? They did have hardships prior to the final days, do the side quests and pandemonium. They suffered like anyone else. You realize that we as the WoL and the sundered sacrifice familiars on a daily basis as well too right? Egi’s are created to be used as punching bags. We summon primals in Eden simply to kill then afterwards. They did 2 sacrifices. 1 was to avert the final days. The second was to restore life to the planet. The 3rd sacrifice would be sacrificing a portion of the new life to bring back the souls lost in Zodiark.

As for Hydaelyn, you need to realize she also brought on the severe morTality with illness and incredibly reduced age. Deaths due to those are all on her hands. Multiply that by the amount of shards and yeah….you get into the trillions and we’re still feeling the effects of that to this day.

[BokoToloko]

You’re so factually incorrect i don’t even know where to begin. The first two sacrifices were volunteers. They did sacrifice themselves for it did you not pay attention in ShB? They did have hardships prior to the final days, do the side quests and pandemonium. They suffered like anyone else. You realize that we as the WoL and the sundered sacrifice familiars on a daily basis as well too right? Egi’s are created to be used as punching bags. We summon primals in Eden simply to kill then afterwards. They did 2 sacrifices. 1 was to avert the final days. The second was to restore life to the planet. The 3rd sacrifice would be sacrificing a portion of the new life to bring back the souls lost in Zodiark.

As for Hydaelyn, you need to realize she also brought on the severe morality with illness and incredibly reduced age. Deaths due to those are all on her hands. Multiply that by the amount of shards and yeah….you get into the trillions and we’re still feeling the effects of that to this day.T

Pandaemonium story isn't even full unveiled and the extent of its misery pales, to what you find after a cataclysm or after the Final Days. Their suffering PALES to what you see in, let's say, Ul'dah squalors or a garlean-occupied territory. It's not even a question. If Amauerotian daddy/sensei issues are suffering, sundereds struggles for SURVIVAL are a hell. And you CAN'T pin this on Hydaelyn because said HELL is of their own making (and at times, Ascian making). And that, where Egis and Primals enter. It's not a whim for the sundered as much as you can like to summon old Titan-Egi to die to npcs for you as it is to issue a threat to their selfsame lifes. The games goes for a good while to elaborate how Beast Tribes (or us in Eden) summon primals many times out of despair or necessity.

And you need to read more carefully because I was talking about ATTEMPTS at sacrificing involuntary parties which were TWO, wholly unrelated to the willing sacrifices made before that you mention. One that was thwarted (the 3rd sacrifice) and one that was left as temptative because it was planned to be done AFTER the rejoinings, in order to recover those sacrificed for Zodiark's summoning by sacrificing the remaining inhabitans of the source. And if you don't believe the second one was on the table, I STRONGLY suggest YOU review shadowbringers cutscenes (specifically the one where you finally meet Emet in the Capitol).

And the life span analogy is so absurd that I'll make a point by giving an equally absurd analogy. Amaurotian culture endorses literal suicide whenever someone has finalized his purpose. This philosophy has probably caused the deaths of trillions and trillions of amaurotians who would've lived a bit longer if people conviced there was more to life than a one purpose (just like G'raha conviced the Omicrons shades, shades of a culture MORE advanced than amaurotians).

To be honest I don't think we ever got an actual proper look at Ancient society; the shades Emet-Selch made were a glimpse into a specific point in time and what he wanted to show us. Elpis was also specifically a test/research facility full of scientists, and you know how scientists are. You basically have to be detached to an extent, or else you'll end up having a breakdown like Hermes did.

As someone who is into the field of Biology and research, I can tell you that scientist do not take lives as willy nilly as media would assert. For a long time, there are strict ethics regarding animal use and it's heavily emphasized to make the most of animals, along with making they live in decent conditions and are granted painless and quick deaths. They don't puke and cry for every mice or rat that is killed but they're not nearly as whimsical as Elpis researchers are.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Pandaemonium story isn't even full unveiled and the extent of its misery pales, to what you find after a cataclysm or after the Final Days. Their suffering PALES to what you see in, let's say, Ul'dah squalors or a garlean-occupied territory. It's not even a question. If Amauerotian daddy/sensei issues are suffering, sundereds struggles for SURVIVAL are a hell. And you CAN'T pin this on Hydaelyn because said HELL is of their own making (and at times, Ascian making). And that, where Egis and Primals enter. It's not a whim for the sundered as much as you can like to summon old Titan-Egi to die to npcs for you as it is to issue a threat to their selfsame lifes. The games goes for a good while to elaborate how Beast Tribes (or us in Eden) summon primals many times out of despair or immense necessity.

And you need to read more carefully because I was talking about ATTEMPTS at sacrificing involuntary parties which were TWO, wholly unrelated to the willing sacrifices made before that you mention. One that was thwarted (the 3rd sacrifice) and one that was left as temptative because it was planned to be done AFTER the rejoinings, in order to recover those sacrificed for Zodiark's summoning by sacrificing the remaining inhabitans of the source. And if you don't believe the second one was on the table, I STRONGLY suggest YOU review shadowbringers cutscenes (specifically the one where you finally meet Emet in the Capitol).

And the life span analogy is so absurd that I'll make a point by giving an equally absurd analogy. Amaurotian culture endorses literal suicide whenever someone has finalized his purpose. This philosophy has probably caused the deaths of trillions and trillions of amaurotians who would've lived a bit longer if people conviced there was more to life than a one purpose (just like G'raha conviced the Omicrons shades, shades of a culture MORE advanced than amaurotians).

So now it’s a competition of suffering. I dare say the ancients suffered far more due to the final days itself. It devastated their entire planet rather than just a couple zones for the sundered. The ascians struggled and toiled for 12,000 years to bring their people back as wellEven disregarding that though, we don’t know what life it was they would sacrifice. Sure, the poroggo familiars and sharlayan familiars and mammets are totally done out of sheer necessity. Much like how uldah’s coliseum raises and captures animals only for them to be slaughtered for entertainment purposes right? The ancients at least had funeral rites for what creations they had to undo.

[BokoToloko]

So now it’s a competition of suffering. I dare say the ancients suffered far more due to the final days itself. It devastated their entire planet rather than just a couple zones for the sundered. The ascians struggled and toiled for 12,000 years to bring their people back as wellEven disregarding that though, we don’t know what life it was they would sacrifice. Sure, the poroggo familiars and sharlayan familiars and mammets are totally done out of sheer necessity. Much like how uldah’s coliseum raises and captures animals only for them to be slaughtered for entertainment purposes right? The ancients at least had funeral rites for what creations they had to undo.

You realize the unsundered didn't suffer more about their final days because we kinda stopped them, right?. Had we stopped them too late, they would be at the exact same point as the amaurotians. Not to mention the Amaurotians didn't get 7 Calamities (8 if we count those in the alternate timeline) unlike the sundered did, thanks in no small part to the remaining Ascians that were suffering severe withdrawal on copium.

But let's keep the competition? Why would we make like, um, sharks with legs? Well, because sharks. With legs. Shark. With. Legs. Peak caring for life. And the colliseum drives it home, because it shows that anyone who's living the good life care very little about what's below him. Just like Ul'dah rich people do, so do Amaurotians. That's why Fandaniel goes full ape shit to begin with. Remember his flashbacks? In his mind, then and now were the same to him. C

And the funeral rites... who do you think they learned them from? From us. The sundered heros who come from the future.

[Lauront]

Re the funeral thing, the MC's contribution is not the actual rites. It is the suggestion of a physical reminder. See here.

[Skyborne]

...

Willy-nilly and whimsical? The animals in Elpis/Ktsis seemed to be roaming around freely for the most part. Some were in cages, though who knows for how long. Ones like the Lykaeons were also instantly unmade into magical aether particles after being captured; the description for the Lethe sightseeing point also states it was where such lifeforms have been dissolved. Certainly, much better than beagles being forcibly held down and infested with parasites on our dime. This is also a fantasy world where reincarnation is 100% a real, observable thing.

Anyway, not really interested in a high horse judgementfest, time to have fun elsewhere.