Can we not shame people who don't like the MSQ?

[Illmaeran]

The cult-like fanaticism surrounding the game's story is honestly scary at times.

Here are two very easy things for the fanatics to comprehend:

It's opening statements and insulting language like this that cause people who do like the MSQ to take offense and defend both themselves and their opinions. I'm not at all surprised that people who are invested in the game due to the story and their admiration of the dev team aggressively defend their opinions and sentiments in the face of language like this.

1. It is perfectly valid for someone to not like the story and still enjoy the rest of FF14!

2. Everyone has different tastes and there is enough content in FF14 that isn't the MSQ for new players! (vets might feel differently though...)

This is 100% true, people are entitled to their opinions and enjoying or not enjoying certain parts of the game is valid. What is not valid is the thought that it's ok to insult people for their opinions and varied tastes.

I don't care what people say, that this is an "RPGMMO" (idiotic statement), or this is a "Final Fantasy first", or whatever other excuse. Next time someone says they find the MSQ boring, lay off the well trodden path of common refrains and just say "that's fine" and continue on with your day.

Starting with "I don't care what people say" and continuing with (idiotic statement) sends a clear message of dismissal to people who understand that this IS an RPGMMO vs. MMORPG. While it may be taking the higher moral road to simply dismiss statements like these, one shouldn't be surprised that people will respond in kind. People can't reasonably expect to call someone an idiot and saying they don't care about others' opinions to not have the recipients of these things defend themselves. Such statements are an insult, not any form of constructive disagreement.

Since this is a strongly story-based game, if someone expresses their dislike of the MSQ, it's not unreasonable for people to suggest this game may not be for the person saying they don't like a major portion of it. I've said it many times myself to people who express opinions that significant portions of the game aren't to their taste. There's no malice in it, it's simply a suggestion that if much of the game isn't enjoyable for them, perhaps they'll enjoy a different game more.

Cataclysm era WoW became something I didn't enjoy so I left after playing the game for 6 years. I loved LotRO and played it for many years until it changed to the point where I no longer enjoyed it. I tried ESO for a bit but didn't enjoy it after a short while and left. I then picked up FFXIV, loved it, but got fed up with certain things during Stormblood and took a long break. I've come back and taken breaks a number of times throughout the years.


Games are a hobby and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed. If someone doesn't enjoy a significant part of what that hobby entails then perhaps they should consider finding a different hobby, or only engaging in the portion of the hobby that they enjoy. However, expressing their opinions using language that's aggressive and insulting to the people who enjoy the parts they don't is not ok.

Stop telling people to unsub or quit or that "this game is not for you" when someone complains about the MSQ. Maybe they're all the way in ShB while skipping cutscenes because... Oh God, can you believe it, they like other parts of the game enough to tolerate the story!

Again, people suggesting others unsubscribe when a player's finished doing what they enjoy then renew their sub when more of what they like is available isn't insulting anyone; it's usually meant in good will. The language people use is often a reflection of the language directed at them. I've only seen responses such as "OMFG, quit the game if you dislike it this much!" in the context of the person expressing dislike using language that's easily interpreted as insulting to the people who do like all or most of what the game offers.

I absolutely love this game despite of what I consider flaws. The general arc of the story's been interesting even though it's had periods where I really couldn't stand how it was presented. I've done the MSQ both when it was current and as a marathon to catch up after a break. It's certainly easier to tolerate the parts I didn't enjoy when it was doled out in chunks rather than having to go through 4 or 5 patches worth of it at once.

I've recently started a new character to play through the game from the start to experience the story again through fresh eyes and the context of the MSQ's end. While I haven't enjoyed some parts, don't look forward to others, and plan to skip the Stormblood MSQ entirely, I see no need to be insulting or dismissive of the people who've liked the stuff I didn't. Personally, I strongly dislike the way raiding's changed as time's passed so I've chosen to not engage in it. That doesn't mean people who like it, express their enjoyment of it, and ask for more are "cultists" or "fanatics"; they simply enjoy different things.

I just don't feel the need to trash on people who don't!

While you may not trash on people who don't like the MSQ, your opening statements certainly trashed on the people who do enjoy it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, please keep in mind that what someone says is received better when it's respectfully stated and doesn't give a message that's contrary to what you're trying to say.

[Mordrick]

Yeah the OP posts hot takes a bit frequently

It's not about the take itself, it's about how the OP presents it. "Cult-like fanaticism" and "cult worship" are definitely trolling terms. OP is just looking to rile people up.

[Bsrking5]

Fact of the matter is mentors tend to be rude. NOT ALL OF THEM OBVIOUSLY. But most in my and other's experience. If a person is rude to mentors just because they wear a crown, that is wrong. I am nice to everyone. If they are abusive, they get reported. Simple as that.


Oh and to add to the topic of this thread, yeah, I've never seen a fanbase like this. In other MMOs you can speak your mind. Here? Not a good idea. I've never seen such cult-like behavior by a FEW of the fans. While others are not cult like, but cannot handle criticism at all. I mean proper criticism. Not rudeness. This fanbase makes me uncomfortable overall. If someone finds the story boring that's fine. Neither side should be rude to each other. But that is never how it works. Ever.

I hate to break this to you but you remember the bad and forget the good. So you just remember the very few who are "rude" and the forget the majority of neutral and few positive.

If you don't like the community, find a different one. You might like the sub reddit better or not. Maybe a discord group is more of your liking. Or just a entirely different game. But if you're mad because someone has a different opinion you're gonna have a bad time on the internet.

[Padudu]

It's not about the take itself, it's about how the OP presents it. "Cult-like fanaticism" and "cult worship" are definitely trolling terms. OP is just looking to rile people up.

People rile themselves on here just fine even without the extra fluffy language. Go take a look at the thread about people pulling in alliance raids while others are watching cutscenes. :P I don't think they've contributed to that more or less, we're just fighty on the forum.

Still not really trolling to me tbh. Sure the words are.. strong and sus, but meh, the OP has a point in the end of the day and ends up at least talking/agreeing with some people in here instead of baiting more angry responses. I think they could do a lot worse than that if they were fully committed lol

IMO OP's posts read that he posts whatever opinion is on their mind without too much of a filter, dude just has generally unpopular opinions and that's kinda whatever. We wouldn't say anything if they posted generally agreeable opinions. I like reading through them since people usually do have interesting takes on whatever topic they posts about. But I see your point

edit: trying to keep gender neutral pronouns kek

[Skiros]

It's opening statements....

I've read all of it. I've never said that everyone who likes the story is a fanatic! Just ignore this post if you've never gotten a tingly feeling in your stomach urging you to defend the MSQ like a white knight whenever someone says they don't like the story.

But there are undoubtedly people who seem to be a fanatic in this thread though! I will admit I actually laughed out loud IRL when I saw the post insinuating that no one can complain about the story because...Soken got cancer and Ishikawa got a standing ovation...?

[Krotoan]

Others can enjoy the story however much they like. I don't doubt that there are some who just keep on replaying MSQ again and again and do nothing else (albeit I will insist that they are nowhere near the majority of playerbase). I'm not asking for the story to be removed. But I do think the game could benefit from making it less of a hindrance for those who simply don't care. And no, pretty much everything is hard gated by the story.

To a point yes, I can concede that technically you HAVE to do the MSQ to even get out of the starting area, you cannot go running off after logging in the first time and swat bees until you manage to get to 90. However there ARE ways to insta-80 a character. Yes it's a paygate. Not here to argue greed or commercialism. But if you don't care about the story, 1-90 is at most a couple weeks work if you have a regular job, and less than a week if you have 8+ hours a day to game. However I also think that encouraging playing at least a LITTLE before dropping into later content is a good thing and not a problem. This isn't the kind of game the general public can drop into at full speed or even other MMO vets (as has been demonstrated time and time again by laughable "nah this game is EZ" clips of people eating laughably simple avoidable mechanics). I think leaving that last 10 levels isn't a gigantic ask and if someone cannot spare the few days at most it takes to blur through the story from 80-90 which EASILY levels you to cap, then they're probably gonna absolutely burn through what's left after that and then be left "where content"-ing with the other current raid only crowd.

As for "maybe this game isn't for you" crowd, I simply disagree with the premise. There is plenty to do besides the story. I don't come back most evenings to re-run the story again. Yes, there are plenty of those who sub for a month do all the story and leave to play other things. But there are also plenty of players who keep on playing regularly for a long period of time and still have plenty to do. And it isn't the story that drives most of those regulars.

Your prerogative I suppose, but considering that's the biggest wall for you to invite others and it's such an integrated part of the experience AND you can't wait for others to get through it even rushed, seems like a reasonable suggestion. The alternative is to yell into the wind that you should be allowed to skip what's basically the major selling point of the FF branding, something they've capitulated on somewhat, but have stuck to their guns as far as COMPLETELY skipping it for nearly a decade.

but serious note aside, plenty of threads are like that and we don't have a problem with them at all. How much productive or quality discussions can you have with a "Show off your race!" thread or the "Today in Duty Finder.." threads? Heck we got a marriage thread where people essentially either just want glam or virtual eyecandy/friends attached to them. There's a (rightfully so btw) complaint thread about Viera and Hrothgar where people just legit.. complain. These aren't productive threads in the slightest, but we like them nonetheless.

Not productive? Seems like they're full of people with pride in the game they play wanting to show off their accomplishments and see others, or venting rather than reporting frivolously, or finding others to RP things with or at least utilize a feature they've got their eye on (or get the rewards). Viera and Hrothgar threads are partially people trying to cause drama.. but there are valid complaints in there about the 2 half-done races. Not in the gender sense but in how they don't even have access to a full fifth of customization options for their character AND they have unique weird issues with hair/customization. All of these I can see value in inherently.

Yeah the OP posts hot takes a bit frequently, but these aren't meaningless. They obviously time and time again provoke some sort of discussion, even if it's a little more lighthearted. It's not trolling really, it's just provocative and not your cup of tea when it comes to threads.

If you don't actually care about the content, just that people react and you KNOW how they're going to react, it isn't to your credit that a discussion eventually evolves, it's just a side effect. The topics and posts are carefully picked to be some of the most inflammatory (and redundant) things on the forum. Things that have been hashed out ad-infinitum or are just insulting people in an extremely veiled and backpedaling available way.

As the saying goes "I'm not a cop".. and so I'm not a mod. But I'm not going to call a spade a club and pretend they aren't doing what they're doing. I'll give credit where it's due, they're not unintelligent. It takes some thought and knowledge to do what they're doing (and a few banned accounts), I just really wish they'd put it towards something that wasn't bumping their own inflammatory posts or creating those posts in the first place.

[Saimeren]

Oh, and btw I personally like the story: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...azing-Spoilers

I just don't feel the need to trash on people who don't!

Are you SJWing for people who didn't ask you to SJW for them?

If this issue has absolutely nothing to do with you (you're not the one being harassed for not liking the story, nor are you doing the harassing) why do you care?

If you see it in a dungeon run and it bothers you, say something. I don't think we need a whole post about it from someone who isn't even involved in the issue.

It just looks like you're looking for praise for "being a good person", or "standing up for others". Which; in itself; is kind of sad.

You don't need to come here saying "I'm a good person who does good things and you should all follow my example"
Good people just do those things without looking to get credit for it.

[Skiros]

The topics and posts are carefully picked to be some of the most inflammatory (and redundant) things on the forum. Things that have been hashed out ad-infinitum or are just insulting people in an extremely veiled and backpedaling available way.

mfw "carefully picked" LMAO it's literally random half-baked thoughts floating into my consciousness

Are you SJWing for people who didn't ask you to SJW for them?

If this issue has absolutely nothing to do with you (your not the one being harassed for not liking the story, nor are you doing the harassing) why do you care?

If you see it in a dungeon run and it bothers you, say something. I don't think we need a whole post about it from someone who isn't even involved in the issue.

It just looks like you're looking for praise for "being a good person", or "standing up for others". Which; in itself; is kind of sad.

You don't need to come here saying "I'm a good person who does good things and you should all follow my example"
Good people just do those things without looking to get credit for it.

I enjoy defending minority opinions that I don't agree with! And I don't need to be told that I'm a good person, because I'm not and I don't really care. I just do what I enjoy. I defend people when I feel like it. You're thinking way too much about this. If anything I enjoy being seen as a maverick because I don't care about majority opinion.

[Padudu]

fat snip

So people who simply post a gpose screenshot on a thread and then leave is more productive than someone who posts a hot take? I can't cap but it's kind of weird to say that the threads that I mentioned above are productive because people can "show pride" and "vent their frustrations out" but threads like this aren't because they're unpopular opinions with some hot verbiage. Even with the OP being a little silly with their responses, I think I can find value in the fact that the people who have posted here obviously have strong opinions on whether or not the MSQ was good or not. Heck, you are having such a discussion right now with another poster, and at least in my interpretation, I think you find SOME value to post here and if you didn't, you wouldn't bother.

You have no way of determining whether or not the OP cares about the content tbh, they could absolutely care lol and just posts what they wants because they doesn't care how people react to it. People are going to respond to unpopular opinions anyways, that's just a given.

[Lieri]

But there are undoubtedly people who seem to be a fanatic in this thread though! I will admit I actually laughed out loud IRL when I saw the post insinuating that no one can complain about the story because...Soken got cancer and Ishikawa got a standing ovation...?

This is 100% a troll attempt. But whatever you do, do not bring an unfortunate disease to a discussion that has nothing to do with it. You heard it? how the game cannot be bad because the composer was ill? yeah of course you did, in your own head, made up by your own thoughts. Then you wrote it on the forum proudly.

Be classy. Dont act like an uneducated fool. You wouldnt be laughing out loud if it was somebody you know that got cancer. Using a disease as a troll material. Well ladies and gentlemen, now we know what kind of person this poster is. If it quacks like a duck, maybe, just maybe, it is a duck.